0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 This subtitle is not finished yet. If you are able to, please support us and watch the talk in amara for the last changes: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/2113 Thanks! 1 00:00:05,191 --> 00:00:08,517 *rc3 preroll music 2021* 2 00:00:08,517 --> 00:00:12,080 Herald: Welcome to the "gehacktes from Hell", we're streaming from the 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:17,120 Bierscheune in Alte Hölle in Brandenburg. The coming talk, looks at the method of 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:22,240 carbon sinking, a way to limit climate change. Hans-Peter Schmidt will tell us 5 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:27,040 how to do this with the help of biochar. We're really happy to have him as a 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,920 speaker because Hans-Peter is a pioneer in the field of biochar science, and he has 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,600 worked on the development of its technologies and the application. 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:41,440 Following the talk, we have a short Q&A session from your devices at home. You can 9 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:49,840 send your questions via Twitter to the hashtag rc3Hell or via the I.R.C. chat or 10 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:59,120 the rocket chat at hashtag rc3-gehacktesfromhell. Later, you can also 11 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:09,120 meet Hans-Peter in a jitsy room called Discussion.altehölle.de. And now over to 12 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:15,570 Hans-Peter. HP: For 15 years now, I work on methods to 13 00:01:15,570 --> 00:01:24,844 extract carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and to sequester the extracted carbon in a 14 00:01:24,844 --> 00:01:34,702 stable form and then soil on sediments. And we found in many others who work on 15 00:01:34,702 --> 00:01:45,494 the same subject found several methods that can extract significant amounts of 16 00:01:45,494 --> 00:01:55,258 carbon dioxide. And also methods that can transform the extracted carbon dioxide 17 00:01:55,258 --> 00:02:02,728 into stable carbon forms that do not degrade biologically or chemically. And 18 00:02:02,728 --> 00:02:11,962 the Ithaca Institute for which I work also developed the first carbon sink 19 00:02:11,962 --> 00:02:22,871 certificate, and it can certify and assess the amount of carbon that are stored in 20 00:02:22,871 --> 00:02:32,858 carbon sinks. And now at the end of 21, we are the stage that several of these 21 00:02:32,858 --> 00:02:41,790 technologies could be scaled and have to be scaled to reach the objectives of 22 00:02:41,790 --> 00:02:53,200 climate policy. But this scale up of these technologies is so massive that it will 23 00:02:53,200 --> 00:03:03,780 have an influence on the geo physics of our planet and that we have to consider 24 00:03:03,780 --> 00:03:15,988 and those risks we have to sink them now. Without. Further waiting. To scale climate 25 00:03:15,988 --> 00:03:28,960 technologies, but we need to take care that the scale up is done sustainably and 26 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:40,080 and in our talk, I want you to make some of these points that we will not hopefully 27 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:49,920 save the climate to get extinguished by other means and didn't. So did. The 28 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:57,920 situation is rather clear, and most in the world, most governments and people are 29 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:06,320 understood by now that we need to reduce the emissions to close to zero by 2050. 30 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:16,480 And and in all scenarios, we should have reached already the point of highest 31 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:28,053 emissions by now. But in fact, emissions still rise. But. Everybody counts on on 32 00:04:28,053 --> 00:04:39,336 emissions reductions to happen rather soon. So to be honest, we cannot see these 33 00:04:39,336 --> 00:04:46,542 reductions happening in the close future, but. Let's let's assume emissions will be 34 00:04:46,542 --> 00:05:05,920 reduced, then according to the plan, until 2050, even then, we will need massive 35 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:11,520 carbon sinks because of the effect of the CO2 that was already admitted to the 36 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:17,840 atmosphere and that is not degraded, but has a global warming effect that continues 37 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:27,600 for several hundreds and thousands and thousands of years. So to clean up legacy 38 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:36,000 emissions, we need to extract carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and need to 39 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:45,520 establish carbon sinks. And we know that if everything goes according to all the 40 00:05:45,520 --> 00:06:00,480 plans of the Paris Treaty and other decision makers. Then we need to extract 41 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:07,488 800 billion tons of CO2 from the atmosphere by the year 2100. So this is 42 00:06:07,488 --> 00:06:16,234 not to balance further emissions. This is only to balance the effect of the 43 00:06:16,234 --> 00:06:22,807 emissions already occured, but the technologies that are available to extract 44 00:06:22,807 --> 00:06:28,412 carbon dioxide, they are called the negative emission technologies. It's 45 00:06:28,412 --> 00:06:34,676 negative because it's positive is when you emit to somewhere negative would be just 46 00:06:34,676 --> 00:06:42,619 this abstraction. Not a nice name, but that's what it is. So net technologies are 47 00:06:42,619 --> 00:06:50,168 nature based like afforestation and the growth of biomass, which in fact is the 48 00:06:50,168 --> 00:06:56,160 way to extract natural carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. And as long as these 49 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:03,683 biomass is growing and does not decompose, carbon is stored. However, when you 50 00:07:03,683 --> 00:07:13,376 transform the biomass carbon by pyrolysis into a stable form like biochar and 51 00:07:13,376 --> 00:07:21,113 paralytic oiles, this transformed carbon can be stored for longer times. And that's 52 00:07:21,113 --> 00:07:26,793 what is here in the middle of the biochar or power organic carbon capture and 53 00:07:26,793 --> 00:07:33,738 storage method, which is partly nature based and partly persistent and measurable 54 00:07:33,738 --> 00:07:40,438 because you have long term carbon sink that cannot just go away by accident, like 55 00:07:40,438 --> 00:07:48,057 in a forest fire. There are other means like enhanced weathering take volcanic 56 00:07:48,057 --> 00:07:56,410 stone powders that can react to carbonates. And then there is direct air 57 00:07:56,410 --> 00:08:06,240 capture is when when you extract by adsorption the CO2 and so you filter air 58 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:15,595 and extract CO2 and transform it then into something that you can store. So our 59 00:08:15,595 --> 00:08:25,840 specialty is picks the biochar method and just shortly to show you how this works. 60 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:39,280 So you have biomass, you heat the biomass in the absence of air. Up to 400 to 800 61 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:47,040 degrees and then it's like cooking without air. And these biomass and then you have 62 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:53,600 solid residue, which is the biochar and liquid residue that you can condense from 63 00:08:53,600 --> 00:09:00,080 the gas phase, which is the paralytic oil. And you still have a permanent gas, which 64 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:10,160 usually is combusted to drive the whole process, which is energy neutral. So you 65 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:18,160 do not need external energy to run this process. And and then this biochar can be 66 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:24,720 used, for example in agryculture to increase yields and to improve soil 67 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:32,960 quality. And then this makes that you can grow more biomass that then again, can go 68 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:42,320 back to to the production of biomass and then transforming by paralysis by truck 69 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:50,095 can also be used in industrial products and in building materials in plastics and 70 00:09:50,095 --> 00:09:59,080 and composite materials where the carbon does not decompose. Neither. So so this is 71 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:08,347 in very short what is picks out any carbon capture and storage. This is a pyrolysis 72 00:10:08,347 --> 00:10:17,774 unit of of a smaller size that can produce up to something like 1500 tonnes of 73 00:10:17,774 --> 00:10:27,822 biochar per year. So shortly again, how it looks inside paralysis, so biomass that is 74 00:10:27,822 --> 00:10:36,434 shredded to smaller particles goes into this screwdriver. And so it's avoided. Any 75 00:10:36,434 --> 00:10:44,976 air can enter this process and then it goes into this cruel reactor and the 76 00:10:44,976 --> 00:10:51,851 biomass is transported here in this reactor, which is heated from environment 77 00:10:51,851 --> 00:10:58,565 temperature of 20 degrees up to 600 decrease. And then the biochar is the 78 00:10:58,565 --> 00:11:06,384 solid residue of this cooking. It flows out of the process, while the other 50 79 00:11:06,384 --> 00:11:13,560 percent of the carbon is in the gas phase, which is separated here. And then in this 80 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:22,712 case, all the gases are burned to produce thermic energy that drives the process and 81 00:11:22,712 --> 00:11:29,644 is then be used for heating purposes. However, if you do not burn the gases, you 82 00:11:29,644 --> 00:11:38,934 can also condense the gases and use the liquid off of the process. And the biochar 83 00:11:38,934 --> 00:11:47,909 is looks like this. It's a very porous material that conserves the biological 84 00:11:47,909 --> 00:11:54,200 structure. Here you have a piece of wood that is carbonized. It looks like 85 00:11:54,200 --> 00:12:00,043 charcoal. And if you look on the microscope, you see this enormous porous 86 00:12:00,043 --> 00:12:05,755 structure, which explains a lot of functions and effects that we see in 87 00:12:05,755 --> 00:12:13,050 biochar. For example, you can impregnate it was organic fertilizers, and then all 88 00:12:13,050 --> 00:12:19,450 these pores are filled with organic fertilizers is preserved, so it cannot be 89 00:12:19,450 --> 00:12:27,185 leached out. The soil and plants and microbes can feed from this conserved 90 00:12:27,185 --> 00:12:35,397 organic fertilizers. So we have an effect of this biochar on economic systems. But 91 00:12:35,397 --> 00:12:42,870 what I want to talk about today is only the effect that if you put this biochar to 92 00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:50,185 soil this carbon, which was CO2 in the atmosphere, which was assimilated by the 93 00:12:50,185 --> 00:12:57,490 biomass which was transformed in the pyrolysis, to aromatic carbon, which is 94 00:12:57,490 --> 00:13:04,763 this black stuff, this aromatic carbon cannot be degraded over centuries by 95 00:13:04,763 --> 00:13:15,120 microorganisms. So if you put it to soil, it is a long term carbon sink. So. To have 96 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:25,494 a global effect, we need a lot of biomass. In the European context we could say, 97 00:13:25,494 --> 00:13:36,160 yeah, we use residual biomass leftovers from food processing or harvest residues 98 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:45,280 or manure or sewage sludge. So these are all biomass that could be transformed by 99 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:56,480 pyrolysis. However, the amount of this residue carbon is not as much as it could 100 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:03,200 have a climate effect. We need a lot more biomass, and it means we have to grow 101 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:11,680 biomass, especially for the extraction of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and the 102 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:20,880 transformation by pyrolysis. So we have to combine. Carbon farming systems was picks 103 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:26,000 or separates any carbon capture and storage. And there are different methods 104 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:35,280 that are not just monocultures, highly intensive production, but these are, what 105 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:42,160 we call carbon farming systems, like you can see here. These are several arable. So 106 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:54,320 you combine wood and crops with arable crops, or you have this kind of 107 00:14:54,320 --> 00:15:00,720 agroforestry systems that are highly productive in regard to biomass. Instead 108 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:07,520 of having just pastries, you can have zero pastries. So animals range below trees 109 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:16,960 that produce additional biomass. We would also need eggy farms that are highly 110 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:23,431 productive and could be combined to shellfish and Ardis, which also clean 111 00:15:23,431 --> 00:15:36,140 coastal water from exceeding nutrients. And so we can see that if we investigate 112 00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:43,164 different farming systems, that in addition to food production, because we do 113 00:15:43,164 --> 00:15:49,130 not want to replace food production by biomass production, but in addition to 114 00:15:49,130 --> 00:15:56,765 food production, which is the green bar in the tropical agroforestry system, we can 115 00:15:56,765 --> 00:16:04,142 produce the same amount of food as now. But in addition, we can produce biomass 116 00:16:04,142 --> 00:16:10,711 for carbon sequestration. Also in systems like Tropical Forest Garden, you can have 117 00:16:10,711 --> 00:16:16,089 both. And you can intensify the systems. However, the suggested eucalyptus 118 00:16:16,089 --> 00:16:24,721 monoculture, as you can see here is would only be for carbon capture and would not 119 00:16:24,721 --> 00:16:32,205 produce fruit. And as you can see, is not very efficient anyway. It just doesn't 120 00:16:32,205 --> 00:16:41,225 make much work. And also, marine seaweed is quite efficient in this regard. Now, if 121 00:16:41,225 --> 00:16:47,786 you come back, if we want now this part, this green part, this is the carbon sink 122 00:16:47,786 --> 00:16:53,449 part that we need to balance global temperatures and we know we need 270 123 00:16:53,449 --> 00:17:00,506 billion tonnes of carbon in this carbon sink. So this is 800 gigatons CO2 124 00:17:00,506 --> 00:17:07,120 equivalent. And what does it mean, if we would with this message, Paragon carbon 125 00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:14,256 capture and storage deliver 30 % of the necessary carbon sink. What does it mean 126 00:17:14,256 --> 00:17:21,032 for global resources? So for this to happen, for this 30% of the minimum 127 00:17:21,032 --> 00:17:28,166 necessary carbon sink, we would need about 100 billion tonnes of biochar and that 128 00:17:28,166 --> 00:17:37,411 gigatons of biochar into 2100. And just to get an imagination on how much this is, 129 00:17:37,411 --> 00:17:46,560 this is the amount of 1500 of this Matterhorn mountains. So the volume of one 130 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:56,120 Matterhorn that you find in the Swiss Alps multiplied by 1500 was dense biochar. So 131 00:17:56,120 --> 00:18:05,594 just the imagination of how much we need to extract and sink. And that's only 30%. 132 00:18:05,594 --> 00:18:13,465 And this amount corresponds to a thin layer of two centimeter of biochar to a 133 00:18:13,465 --> 00:18:22,561 centimeter of biochar on each hectare of global agricultural land. So we would have 134 00:18:22,561 --> 00:18:30,120 to cover all agricultural land by two centimeters of biochar, which then will be 135 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:37,371 dicked or plowed into the soil as a carbon sink. So it is a massive, massive mess and 136 00:18:37,371 --> 00:18:44,106 it only makes 30 percent of the biochar. So we would need to produce this amount of 137 00:18:44,106 --> 00:18:54,633 biochar. We would need 190 gigatons of biomass. And. So this and it's kind of 90 138 00:18:54,633 --> 00:19:05,869 gigatons of biomass. We need to compare to the global standing biomass. And that's 139 00:19:05,869 --> 00:19:13,049 about 0.8 percent of the global standing biomass and 0.8 percent of the global 140 00:19:13,049 --> 00:19:22,440 standing biomass would have to be paralyzed every year from the year 2050 to 141 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:32,213 2100 to produce the amount of carbon sink. That's necessary to preserve 30 percent of 142 00:19:32,213 --> 00:19:44,160 the climate. And that would need about he handed 80000 industrial paralysis plants. 143 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:55,280 So we calculated and looked and what does it mean to produce 500000 pyrolysis 144 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:01,360 industrial pyrolysis plants? We imagine it could be, or there has to be produced in 145 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:12,320 chain production like cars. But to reach the negative emission potential that's 146 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:20,400 necessary by 2050, we need an exponential growth of the production of this pyrolysis 147 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:26,160 units, which would be possible. And you you see you see here, this is the blue 148 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:34,291 line. So we have this exponential growth. And as you can see, we have then the 149 00:20:34,291 --> 00:20:44,637 slowdown of of the growth of absolute numbers. So the the orange line here, you 150 00:20:44,637 --> 00:20:51,252 see the production numbers per year, so you have to grow until 2043 to produce 151 00:20:51,252 --> 00:20:58,964 50000 units per year. But then you have to to slow down the production because we can 152 00:20:58,964 --> 00:21:06,802 only use 400000 pyrolysis units on Earth. After that, we do not have more biomass to 153 00:21:06,802 --> 00:21:13,201 treat. So we need an exponential growth because of the severity of the problem of 154 00:21:13,201 --> 00:21:21,483 the problem. And then we need an exponential growth after 2043 to a steady 155 00:21:21,483 --> 00:21:31,058 state of the production of few plants that are needed to renew these standing plants. 156 00:21:31,058 --> 00:21:36,928 So this is a very interesting from economic point of view, and we will see 157 00:21:36,928 --> 00:21:44,056 this in several areas because of the global economy and global problems and the 158 00:21:44,056 --> 00:21:52,800 global limits of resources that we need. Exponential growth and growth for several 159 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:58,880 technologies. And how that will be done. It's very interesting. That's subject of 160 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:09,280 today. So, so you saw it's massive. What would be needed? 400000 plants in one 161 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:17,360 plant costs about 1.3 million euro, so that's about 500 billion euro, and that is 162 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:22,800 not so much in the end, it's less than 50 percent of the annual military spending. 163 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:28,480 So from an economic point of view, it would certainly be possible to make it 164 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:36,480 happen. So more problematic is how can we make it happen on an economic point of 165 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:43,440 view? Financially, this is very attractive, as we can see first, the 166 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,080 production of the industrial units and then you have a global carbon sink market. 167 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:55,680 If you calculate a 100 per tonne of CO2 equivalent and we know how much CO2 we 168 00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:02,880 need to extract. So this is a 400 billion euro markets per year only for carbon sink 169 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:09,520 credits. So massive and very interested market. And that's why you see a lot of 170 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,480 financial institutes going already now into these markets. Well, what do we have 171 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:24,160 with the risks and side effects? So. The 0.8 percent of the global plant mess that 172 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:33,440 has to be paralyzed every year, that's about 0.75 ton biomass per hectare of 173 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:42,800 agricultural land. So if we extract from every sector of the world's crop land and 174 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,760 bit less than one ton of biomass, we could solve the problem so that that's not seem 175 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:55,040 too much. However, this biomass is everywhere, and there are now millions of 176 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,640 farmers that all would have to be convinced to do it. And then we have to 177 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:06,160 bring the industry close to them so that they can extract the biomass. So let's say 178 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:11,040 if 10 percent of agricultural land was used for biomass production by carbon 179 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:19,200 farming. So we set aside 10 percent of the global agricultural land and then we only 180 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:29,440 need 7.5 tons of biomass per hectare. And that would be feasible because thanks to 181 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:36,960 biochar based fertilization, crop productivity can increase about more than 182 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:45,840 20 percent. So to have 10 percent aside would be possible. So let's say. It would, 183 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:52,800 in theory, be possible to produce the biomass necessary for the carbon sinks on 184 00:24:52,800 --> 00:25:02,880 the available agricultural land without decreasing food production. But in the 185 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:10,960 last five minutes of my talk, I want to give you another outlook because socially 186 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:19,040 and environmentally, it's still very much on the edge to do this huge scaling carbon 187 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:29,200 by organic carbon storage project, because we have several other problems on Earth 188 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:35,440 and not only the climate problem, we have the biodiversity crisis, other ecosystem 189 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:43,920 crisis and therefore the Half Earths project was announced about five years ago 190 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:57,840 to say that. It is needed that 50 percent of the Earth's surface is preserved for 191 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:06,560 nature recovery, and there are, in fact, quite a lot of governments that agreed to 192 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:17,040 this program astonishingly. And it has a lot of support this initiative from Archie 193 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:24,160 Wilson. You find more information and half earths project on the website that you see 194 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:29,920 here below, because that's that's the point. If we do all this climate action, 195 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:36,720 we do not have enough land to preserve it for natural revival. However, we have 196 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:44,480 technology that's possible. And in the latest Saudi Arabian solar energy project, 197 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:52,720 the kilowatt hour was produced at zero point eighty eight cents. And that means 198 00:26:52,720 --> 00:27:02,320 energy becomes so cheap that we have new possibilities for technology to produce. 199 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:14,240 In fact, carbon sinks without plants. So the Obrist company, they created this 200 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:22,960 project a fuel, which is methanol factory that runs entirely on renewable powered 201 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:32,320 energy, so you have this large solar panels and then you have here. The 202 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:40,080 chemistry that's behind. So in short, you have direct air capture here where you 203 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:48,800 filter out the CO2 from the atmosphere. The energy is used for electrolysis that 204 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:56,000 is done with desalinated water. So they produce hydrogen from desalinated water, 205 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:04,480 which the solar energy. And with the CO2 from direct air capture, there is methanol 206 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:12,080 synthesized. In methanol is a liquid form of carbon. It's a bit like alcohol, but 207 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:18,480 just methanol, and which is not toxic, which can be pumped, which can be 208 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:23,440 transported, which can be used as a fuel, and which could also be used as a carbon 209 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:29,840 sink. So you can find here and when you have more time, you can go into details. 210 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:40,560 We calculated the total balance. So for 500000 tons of carbon dioxide equivalent 211 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,360 in the carbon sink, so that means we extract 500000 tons of CO2 from the 212 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:53,440 atmosphere. We need 11.5 km^2 square kilometers of solar panels that produce 213 00:28:54,880 --> 00:29:01,600 6000 gigawatt hour of energy. Part of this energy is used for the direct air capture. 214 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,240 Part of this energy is used for desalination and electrolysis, which 215 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:14,800 produces oxygen, and then the hydrogen and CO2 are synthesized to methanol great 216 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:20,480 produce some energy that goes back to the process. We produce also water that also 217 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:26,320 goes back to the process. And then you have the carbon sink. And this methanol, 218 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:36,320 in fact, can be pumped back into old fossil storages like in the Saudi Arabian 219 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:49,280 desert. And so we scale this up and. We would need only 21% of the surface of 220 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:58,880 Saudi Arabia used for this Methanol carbon sink technology to sequester the necessary 221 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:07,400 800 gigatons of CO2 equivalent and pump it back into abundant fossil oilfields until 222 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:19,280 2100. And the interesting thing here is that only. This is only 10 percent of the 223 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:26,480 surface that would be needed if we do the same thing with plants and biomass and 224 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:34,400 where everything works perfectly optimized without chemical fertilizer, without 225 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:39,600 irrigation and not counting the risk of fire. And as a disaster is happening to 226 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:46,320 the biomass production, there is this technological solution. I think we could 227 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:57,520 prepare the biggest, the biggest hack ever. To turn. The Arabian fossil fuel 228 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:05,040 producers into carbon sink produces and pumped back the liquified carbon extracted 229 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:15,256 from the atmosphere to the fossil oilfields. Thank you very much. 230 00:31:15,256 --> 00:31:30,080 Herald: So how can we avoid the risk of deployment of CO2 sinks becoming a cheap 231 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:36,400 excuse for not pursuing the necessary reduction of CO2 emissions on the other 232 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:41,680 hand? HP: Yeah, this is this is and the main 233 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:48,640 problem, I think now when we enter this carbon sink markets, because all the 234 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:56,400 carbon sinks to the bottom now are used for emission compensation. And but but we 235 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:04,880 have no choice. We have to curb the emissions. So normally policy makers 236 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:11,680 should defend the compensation of emissions with carbon sinks because the 237 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:18,080 carbon sinks we need for the compensation of legacy emissions of all the CO2 it was 238 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:27,040 already emitted before now. Herald: Yes. So how do you estimate the 239 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:32,080 potential of picks against the background of increasing interest in biomass for 240 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:41,040 food, energy and chemical industry? HP: Yeah, we need all of it. And we will 241 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:48,320 not have enough of it. And that's why I presented the possibility to extract 242 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:54,000 carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, for the chemical industry, for fuel, for 243 00:32:54,000 --> 00:33:01,120 materials, for plastics and also for carbon sinks. I think we will not achieve 244 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:09,360 the protection of our ecosystems and of the climate with the biomass that we have 245 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,574 on the planet only. Herald: All right. Actually, just a fourth 246 00:33:13,574 --> 00:33:20,933 question came in. I think we have time for one more little question. How can we be 247 00:33:20,933 --> 00:33:26,510 sure that Oprah's would be more successful than an example? Desertec. 248 00:33:26,510 --> 00:33:32,090 HP: And what was the first one? Herald: How can we be sure that this 249 00:33:32,090 --> 00:33:36,053 operation will be more successful than this attack? 250 00:33:36,053 --> 00:33:43,520 HP: Yeah, I. The economics are much better now because solar energy is so much 251 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:50,565 cheaper than 20 years ago when desetec started, and the system is more complex 252 00:33:50,565 --> 00:33:58,418 because of decoupling with chemical industry with carbon sink, and the 253 00:33:58,418 --> 00:34:07,194 necessity is also higher. So I think we we can achieve this and and desetec is not 254 00:34:07,194 --> 00:34:12,398 dead yet and could continue also towards more complex systems. 255 00:34:12,398 --> 00:34:18,900 Herald: All right, thank you. Hans-Peter, thank you very much. I'm saying goodbye to 256 00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:24,553 you in the stream now about everyone is invited to join further discussion in the 257 00:34:24,553 --> 00:34:27,805 Jitsy room now, which you can reach and discussion dort alte-hoelle@de Goodbye 258 00:34:27,805 --> 00:34:40,884 from Bierscheune and sieh you in the jitsi room. 259 00:34:40,884 --> 00:34:50,531 HP: Thank you. 260 00:34:50,531 --> 00:34:55,354 *rc3 postroll music 2021* 261 00:34:55,354 --> 00:35:00,815 Subtitles created by many many volunteers and the c3subtitles.de team. Join us, and help us!