1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:16,390 *35C3 preroll music* 2 00:00:19,172 --> 00:00:24,190 Herald angel: And now please welcome our speaker Claudia. 3 00:00:24,190 --> 00:00:30,430 *Applause* Claudia Frick: Thank you. So, hopefully 4 00:00:30,430 --> 00:00:43,020 there will be my slides up there. I see someone running. Running fast. *Laughter* 5 00:00:43,020 --> 00:00:49,060 *Laughing* OK. 6 00:00:49,060 --> 00:00:57,910 *Laughing* Ah. 7 00:00:57,910 --> 00:01:00,680 Here we go. Phew. 8 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:01,890 *Applause* 9 00:01:01,890 --> 00:01:08,350 Yes. So hello everybody and welcome also from my side to one of the first talks of 10 00:01:08,350 --> 00:01:15,311 this congress. Yeah my name is Claudia Frick or if you know me from Twitter, my 11 00:01:15,311 --> 00:01:21,170 name is FuzzyLeapfrog. And I'm about to refresh your memories on scholarly 12 00:01:21,170 --> 00:01:28,500 communication and scientific publishing. But since this is my first talk at a Chaos 13 00:01:28,500 --> 00:01:34,880 Communication Congress, I'd like to start with two facts about me so that you know 14 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:42,170 who is talking to you. So fact number 1. I am an atmospheric scientist so I have a 15 00:01:42,170 --> 00:01:50,111 PhD in meteorology. Fact number 2. I am now working as a librarian in the library 16 00:01:50,111 --> 00:01:58,329 of a research center. The most common reaction I usually get when I say this is: 17 00:01:58,329 --> 00:02:05,240 Why? There are actually several reasons why I left science and joined the library 18 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:12,330 world and for the next 30 minutes I'll talk about one of these reasons. And to be 19 00:02:12,330 --> 00:02:20,750 honest it's the reason I'm most passionate about. OK, so let's dive into the topic. 20 00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:26,831 And I'll start with a few simple questions that you can answer just for yourself: Do 21 00:02:26,831 --> 00:02:34,440 you think science helps us - as a society - to be well-educated and to make rational 22 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:42,200 and fact-based decisions? Do you think science helps us to live healthier, longer 23 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:48,720 and to deal with diseases? Do you think science helps us to face global challenges 24 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:57,670 like climate change? If you answered at least one of these questions with yes, 25 00:02:57,670 --> 00:03:03,000 then you must also think that restricting the access to scientific results is not 26 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:11,310 beneficial for our society. Unfortunately, that's what we are currently doing. 27 00:03:11,310 --> 00:03:19,820 72 percent of scientific publications are locked up behind paywalls. Which means 28 00:03:19,820 --> 00:03:26,850 that only those with money have access to science and those who don't have money are 29 00:03:26,850 --> 00:03:33,950 either left behind or they are forced to go illegal ways. And this is not how it 30 00:03:33,950 --> 00:03:42,860 should be. But how should it be instead? We should have open access to science and 31 00:03:42,860 --> 00:03:47,650 open access means that everybody in the world should have access to science 32 00:03:47,650 --> 00:03:57,630 without any financial, technical or legal barriers. At the end of my talk, I want 33 00:03:57,630 --> 00:04:03,069 you all to know what we can do to tear down the paywalls in scientific publishing 34 00:04:03,069 --> 00:04:09,980 and to achieve open access to science. But before we can talk about how we can change 35 00:04:09,980 --> 00:04:15,719 a system like scientific publishing, we have to understand how it works. So we'll 36 00:04:15,719 --> 00:04:21,000 start with a look on the question what the most common way of scientific publishing 37 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:27,400 currently looks like. So for all the non- scientists in this room or those who 38 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:34,060 haven't published a scientific publication so far, let me take you on the roller 39 00:04:34,060 --> 00:04:41,659 coaster journey of scientific publishing. Imagine yourself to be an atmospheric 40 00:04:41,659 --> 00:04:48,256 scientist, a brilliant atmospheric scientist, and you spent the past 5 years 41 00:04:48,256 --> 00:04:54,148 of your life in your laboratory and you made some time consuming experiments. You 42 00:04:54,148 --> 00:05:01,299 ran some complex simulations and after a lot of sweat and pain and a lot of tears, 43 00:05:01,299 --> 00:05:11,250 you finally found it. You found the solution to climate change. Yes. And it's 44 00:05:11,250 --> 00:05:15,509 absolutely great that you know how to reduce greenhouse gases back to a proper 45 00:05:15,509 --> 00:05:20,930 level and how to stop temperatures from increasing, but the whole scientific 46 00:05:20,930 --> 00:05:25,789 community, everybody in the world should know about it so that we can realize the 47 00:05:25,789 --> 00:05:31,809 solution and finally stop climate change. So you have to communicate your research 48 00:05:31,809 --> 00:05:37,629 in order for it to benefit society and that you can get the Nobel Prize that you 49 00:05:37,629 --> 00:05:44,150 absolutely deserve. So, you write down a summary of your solution into a manuscript 50 00:05:44,150 --> 00:05:52,510 of let's say 15 pages. But what's next? How to distribute this manuscript in the 51 00:05:52,510 --> 00:05:58,550 community? Since I am at the Chaos Communication Congress and we are in the 52 00:05:58,550 --> 00:06:04,039 21st century, I assume that most of you are currently thinking: Yeah, just put it 53 00:06:04,039 --> 00:06:11,159 on the internet. Yeah. That's not what the most common way of scientific publishing 54 00:06:11,159 --> 00:06:17,569 looks like. At least not yet. What you will do instead is that you will either 55 00:06:17,569 --> 00:06:24,809 submit your manuscript to a scientific conference or to an academic journal. 56 00:06:24,809 --> 00:06:29,100 Which one you will do mainly depends on your discipline. So if you are for example 57 00:06:29,100 --> 00:06:33,509 a computer scientist, you will most likely submit your manuscript to a scientific 58 00:06:33,509 --> 00:06:38,629 conference. If you are an atmospheric scientist, you will most likely submit 59 00:06:38,629 --> 00:06:43,809 your manuscript to an academic journal. But both publishing processes are nearly 60 00:06:43,809 --> 00:06:49,810 the same, so I will only guide you through one of them. So since you are an 61 00:06:49,810 --> 00:06:55,800 atmospheric scientist, you now submit your manuscript about the solution to climate 62 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:00,949 change to an academic journal. And at this stage your manuscript is called a 63 00:07:00,949 --> 00:07:07,460 pre-print. And your manuscript fits into the scope of the journal, therefore in the 64 00:07:07,460 --> 00:07:14,819 next step a process of quality control starts. This is called peer review. Peers 65 00:07:14,819 --> 00:07:21,999 are other scientists like for example these two guys. Yeah I know that this is 66 00:07:21,999 --> 00:07:27,099 scary, but these two guys will have a look at your manuscript - and check whether 67 00:07:27,099 --> 00:07:34,349 everything you did and wrote is valid and scientifically correct. Because maybe you 68 00:07:34,349 --> 00:07:39,339 only think you've found the solution to climate change, but in reality you made a 69 00:07:39,339 --> 00:07:45,460 really awful mistake already on page one. But that's not what happens to you, 70 00:07:45,460 --> 00:07:50,139 because you're brilliant and your solution is perfect. So these two guys only have 71 00:07:50,139 --> 00:07:55,259 some minor corrections and comments and you integrate them into your manuscript 72 00:07:55,259 --> 00:08:01,919 and resubmit this new version to the Journal. And now you are lucky. Because 73 00:08:01,919 --> 00:08:06,529 the Journal then says: Yeah okay, with these changes we'll accept your manuscript 74 00:08:06,529 --> 00:08:12,590 for publication. And at this stage your manuscript is called the post-print. 75 00:08:12,590 --> 00:08:16,850 Because the content is now the final one that will be later printed in the Journal or 76 00:08:16,850 --> 00:08:23,669 published online since we are in the 21st century. And now in the last step some 77 00:08:23,669 --> 00:08:28,740 typesetting happens, so your manuscript is brought into the layout of the journal and 78 00:08:28,740 --> 00:08:33,919 then this fancy publisher's version is published on the Journal website, from 79 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:40,570 where everybody in the world can see that you've found a solution to climate change. 80 00:08:40,570 --> 00:08:46,020 And this is what the most common way of scientific publishing currently looks 81 00:08:46,020 --> 00:08:55,180 like. Simplified. But I forgot one very important detail and this is the paywall. 82 00:08:55,180 --> 00:09:03,720 You published closed access. And at this point I'm sorry, but we have to talk about 83 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:10,530 money. Because there's a lot of money changing hands in this process. And the 84 00:09:10,530 --> 00:09:15,040 first occasion money changes its hands has actually nothing to do at all with the 85 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:20,370 paywall. Because did you know that you - the author of the manuscript or your 86 00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:24,500 laboratory - might have to pay money to the publisher in order for your 87 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:30,310 publication to get published? Yeah. Maybe your manuscript was too long and you have 88 00:09:30,310 --> 00:09:36,120 to pay page charges or you included some colorful figures and you have to pay color 89 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:44,260 charges. Yes, color charges in the 21st century. And the second occasion money 90 00:09:44,260 --> 00:09:50,070 changes its hands is at the paywall. Because there are a lot of scientists out 91 00:09:50,070 --> 00:09:55,050 there that need to know the solution to climate change and some of them are lucky 92 00:09:55,050 --> 00:10:02,150 - like her - and they work for an institution that has money and that has a 93 00:10:02,150 --> 00:10:07,880 library. And this library will pay money to the publisher to grant the scientists 94 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,791 access to your publication. Either by paying a subscription fee so that they 95 00:10:12,791 --> 00:10:17,660 have access to all publications in the journal or by just purchasing your single 96 00:10:17,660 --> 00:10:23,700 publication. But there are a lot of scientists out there that aren't that 97 00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:29,660 lucky. And they won't have access to your publication. And what about all the non- 98 00:10:29,660 --> 00:10:34,640 scientists in this room that I'm sure also want to know the solution to climate 99 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:42,910 change? They won't have access either unless they are willing to pay. But who 100 00:10:42,910 --> 00:10:51,180 said that we all together didn't already pay for this publication? Because who 101 00:10:51,180 --> 00:10:56,420 funds you, the brilliant atmospheric scientist at your laboratory? Who funds 102 00:10:56,420 --> 00:11:01,520 the two guys doing the peer review and who funds the library that grants other 103 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:10,680 scientists access? It's us. We all do. It's tax payers' money. So don't you think 104 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:17,370 we kind of already paid for this publication? OK, you might now think: But 105 00:11:17,370 --> 00:11:23,210 hey, there will obviously be money coming back because authors and people doing peer 106 00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:29,560 review will get paid for their work by the publisher. No. That doesn't happen in 107 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:37,930 science. Scientists are doing all of this work cost-free. For the publisher. OK, but 108 00:11:37,930 --> 00:11:41,720 then you might think: But hey, then they maybe this is just the business model of 109 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,740 academic publishers. I mean they definitely have their costs that they need 110 00:11:45,740 --> 00:11:51,090 to cover. So maybe they are just doing this: Covering their costs and they are 111 00:11:51,090 --> 00:11:58,630 not making so much more money out of it. Huh. We are currently having three major 112 00:11:58,630 --> 00:12:04,790 academic publishers. They are called Elsevier, Springer and Wiley. And let's 113 00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:11,480 have a look at the profit margins of at least Elsevier and Springer. They are 35 114 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:19,780 and 37 percent. Pure profit. These margins are even higher than the ones of Google 115 00:12:19,780 --> 00:12:29,160 and Apple. We are all together paying in every year 7.6 billion euros 116 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:37,220 for access of popular publications. Seven point six billion euros per year. And this 117 00:12:37,220 --> 00:12:43,800 has some very weird practical consequences. Because publishers are 118 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:49,500 requesting so much public money to get access to mainly publicly funded 119 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:57,380 publications, that even those that really do have money like the Harvard University 120 00:12:57,380 --> 00:13:06,090 can no longer afford them. And when I learned this, all of this, for the first 121 00:13:06,090 --> 00:13:14,340 time, I only had two options left. Option number 1. Join the open access movement 122 00:13:14,340 --> 00:13:20,890 and tear down these paywalls. Option number 2. Become myself an academic 123 00:13:20,890 --> 00:13:29,830 publisher. Yeah my bank account this morning said I chose option 1. So let's 124 00:13:29,830 --> 00:13:37,780 talk about how we can tear down the paywalls. There are generally a lot of 125 00:13:37,780 --> 00:13:44,051 approaches we can take. Some of them are smaller, but persistent, and others are 126 00:13:44,051 --> 00:13:51,070 more massive steps. But who can do anything about the paywall? Who are the 127 00:13:51,070 --> 00:13:58,000 involved players in scientific publishing? Well we have the scientists that do most 128 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,810 of the work: they produce the content, they do the quality control of the content 129 00:14:02,810 --> 00:14:07,750 and they are even the ones that later in the process mainly consume the content. 130 00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:12,790 Then we have the funders that provide the money, we have the libraries that grant 131 00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:18,610 access and we have the publishers that publish the academic journals. Since I 132 00:14:18,610 --> 00:14:23,760 assume that we are not having so many funders and publishers in here and I don't 133 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:30,440 think that the number of librarians is higher than - 10, I'd like to focus on 134 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:35,620 what scientists can do to tear down the paywall. But I will also have a look on 135 00:14:35,620 --> 00:14:41,680 what we can achieve if the first three players work together. But, let's start 136 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:47,350 small, with you - the brilliant atmospheric scientist. So you just 137 00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:54,750 published your solution to climate change like this. And you just realized: Damn. I 138 00:14:54,750 --> 00:14:59,130 published behind the paywall. And a lot of scientists won't have access to my 139 00:14:59,130 --> 00:15:05,620 publication. And usually that's not what scientists want. Because most scientists I 140 00:15:05,620 --> 00:15:12,910 know want their publications to be read, to be spread, to be cited and to be 141 00:15:12,910 --> 00:15:20,510 discussed as widely as possible. And the paywall prevents this. So you might now 142 00:15:20,510 --> 00:15:24,320 wonder whether there's anything you can do about the paywall when you publish like 143 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:30,960 this. Yes, you can do something about it. The first option you have is brought to 144 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:37,300 you by the publisher. The publisher offers you the possibility to remove the paywall 145 00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:42,750 just in front of your single publication while all other publications in the 146 00:15:42,750 --> 00:15:49,320 journal remain behind the paywall. This is called hybrid open access. And what does 147 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,370 the publisher want to remove the paywall in front of your publication? 148 00:15:53,370 --> 00:15:57,600 Audience: Money! Claudia: Yeah, it's even more money. 149 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,990 Yeah, I do not recommend this. Is there 150 00:16:02,990 --> 00:16:09,070 anything - anything - you can do about this publication without paying even more 151 00:16:09,070 --> 00:16:14,279 money to the publisher? I mean: it's your publication; it's your work that you've 152 00:16:14,279 --> 00:16:18,510 done. Can't you just take it from the journal website and put it on the 153 00:16:18,510 --> 00:16:24,780 internet? This is called a secondary publication and there are places for this. 154 00:16:24,780 --> 00:16:28,840 They are called arXiv, institutional repositories, or even the commercial web 155 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:33,110 site ResearchGate. Can't you just upload your manuscript there and make it 156 00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:38,820 available via so-called green open access? The answer to this question is: 157 00:16:38,820 --> 00:16:45,100 it depends. Because what happened when you decided to publish behind the paywall is 158 00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:50,800 that you signed a so-called copyright transfer agreement and it is what it 159 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:56,420 literally says: you signed away the copyright of your work to the publisher. 160 00:16:56,420 --> 00:17:02,840 Yeah. *Laughter* So if you want to re- publish your manuscript somewhere else, 161 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,699 you have to check whether this is okay for the copyright owner; that is, the 162 00:17:06,699 --> 00:17:13,240 publisher. But hey, some good news here. Most publishers will allow at least some 163 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:20,411 form of re-publication. But this is where it gets really really tricky, because 164 00:17:20,411 --> 00:17:25,940 publishers are having some very specific and very restrictive conditions on this. 165 00:17:25,940 --> 00:17:30,040 So, you cannot just publish any version of your manuscript. Maybe you can only 166 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,880 publish the pre-print. That is the version of your manuscript without all the changes 167 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,880 that came in during peer review. So it's not the content that you finally 168 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:44,590 published. And they have some very specific conditions on where you can 169 00:17:44,590 --> 00:17:48,970 publish. Maybe you can only do it on your personal website, but not on the one of 170 00:17:48,970 --> 00:17:54,690 your university. And then they have some very specific ideas on when you can 171 00:17:54,690 --> 00:17:59,380 re-publish, because you cannot just do it right away most of the times. You have to 172 00:17:59,380 --> 00:18:07,970 wait an embargo period of 6 months, 12 months or even 4 years and 4 years is kind 173 00:18:07,970 --> 00:18:16,790 of a long time to wait for a solution to climate change. And these conditions. They 174 00:18:16,790 --> 00:18:22,520 do not only vary by publisher, they vary by journal, so you really have to check 175 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:29,520 for each single of your publication what you are allowed to do and what not. And I 176 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:35,870 totally get it - that's not easy. That's confusing. It's time-consuming and believe 177 00:18:35,870 --> 00:18:42,650 me, it's absolutely no fun at all. But if you are ever struggling with this as a 178 00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:47,640 scientist, I have a very simple and convenient advice for you and it is to 179 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:53,890 just ask your librarian. Because that's our business and I'm absolutely sure that 180 00:18:53,890 --> 00:18:57,880 even in your library there's at least one librarian that has specialized on 181 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:05,050 copyright and can do this for you. But wouldn't it be so much easier if you could 182 00:19:05,050 --> 00:19:09,630 just do whatever the hell you want to do with your publication? If you could just 183 00:19:09,630 --> 00:19:17,220 keep the copyright right away? Yes, it would be. And it's possible. So maybe the 184 00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:23,410 next time you publish a solution to a global challenge, publish it gold open 185 00:19:23,410 --> 00:19:30,310 access. This means that you will publish in a so-called open access journal. These 186 00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:34,980 journals do not have any paywall at all and all publications in there are 187 00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:40,260 published under a Creative Commons license, so you will keep the copyright of 188 00:19:40,260 --> 00:19:48,550 your work. How do these journals work? Well let's get back to closed access. What 189 00:19:48,550 --> 00:19:53,840 open access journals obviously do is that they remove the paywall, which means that 190 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,720 libraries don't have to pay money to the publisher to grant their scientists 191 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:05,600 access. And what also happens is that you are no longer asked to pay color charges, 192 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:11,020 but you have to pay an article processing charge, or your laboratory. But since 193 00:20:11,020 --> 00:20:15,300 libraries are saving a lot of money by not paying for access to these journals, most 194 00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:21,260 German libraries for example will cover these costs for you. But it can be even 195 00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:26,990 better. Because there are a lot of open access journals out there that do not even 196 00:20:26,990 --> 00:20:32,970 charge an article processing charge. This is called platinum open access. And these 197 00:20:32,970 --> 00:20:37,990 journals do not ask for money from anyone; neither for reading nor for publishing. 198 00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:44,399 But how do these journals even survive, because they are not making any profit? 199 00:20:44,399 --> 00:20:49,450 Well we know that scientists are already doing most of the work in this process. 200 00:20:49,450 --> 00:20:55,230 And some of them decided to just do the rest of the work, too. Yes, there are 201 00:20:55,230 --> 00:20:59,760 scientists out there running their own academic journals. Several of them joined 202 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,660 forces with their libraries to have a powerful and experienced infrastructure in 203 00:21:04,660 --> 00:21:10,780 the background and together scientists and librarians are providing this non-for- 204 00:21:10,780 --> 00:21:17,030 profit service for science in the hands of scientists, without any commercial 205 00:21:17,030 --> 00:21:24,750 interests. So this is already an example of what we can achieve. If we are no 206 00:21:24,750 --> 00:21:30,380 longer only focusing on you, the single scientist and your single publication, but 207 00:21:30,380 --> 00:21:37,890 if we look at what we can achieve if we work together and join our forces. And 208 00:21:37,890 --> 00:21:43,759 there are a lot of more examples out there for this. I listed a few over here. And 209 00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:48,880 for the rest of the talk I'd like to focus on one of them. Mainly because it's a 210 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:56,390 German project and it got some recent attention. And this is Project DEAL. 211 00:21:56,390 --> 00:22:01,190 Project DEAL is commissioned by the Alliance of Science Organizations in 212 00:22:01,190 --> 00:22:08,760 Germany and is driven by scientists and librarians together. And what they want to 213 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:15,460 achieve is a major step forward to open access with our three already known major 214 00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:21,240 academic publishers. And project DEAL wants to achieve this by implementing so- 215 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:27,040 called nationwide consortium agreements. But what is a nationwide consortium 216 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:34,760 agreement and what can it do about open access? These agreements consist of two 217 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:42,340 components. They are so-called publish and read deals. And the first component is the 218 00:22:42,340 --> 00:22:48,950 Read component. And it means that all participating institutions, universities 219 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:53,770 will have access to all journal publications of the publisher, when 220 00:22:53,770 --> 00:23:00,420 there's a deal. And the publish component means that all publications with a 221 00:23:00,420 --> 00:23:04,040 corresponding author from one of these participating institutions and 222 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:12,100 universities, will be published Open Access with this publisher. And both of 223 00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:19,310 these components are covered with one single and one reasonable fee. So for 224 00:23:19,310 --> 00:23:25,140 example if your university would be part of such a deal with Elsevier you would 225 00:23:25,140 --> 00:23:29,950 have access to all Elsevier publications and all your publications would be 226 00:23:29,950 --> 00:23:37,470 published Open Access with Elsevier. This would mean that there would be up to 16500 227 00:23:37,470 --> 00:23:46,840 publications published every year Open Access under such a deal. And this is what 228 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,360 project DEAL wants to achieve. So these are the goals. But how is Project DEAL 229 00:23:51,360 --> 00:24:00,330 progressing? There are currently ongoing negotiations with Wiley and Springer. So 230 00:24:00,330 --> 00:24:06,580 there are two parties the publisher and Project DEAL sitting together at one table 231 00:24:06,580 --> 00:24:11,730 and having a major common understanding about the future of scientific publishing 232 00:24:11,730 --> 00:24:17,710 and about what the basic conditions of such a deal should be and they are now 233 00:24:17,710 --> 00:24:24,910 discussing the details. The picture becomes quite different if we look at 234 00:24:24,910 --> 00:24:33,530 Elsevier. Because there seem to be right away a major disagreement about the basic 235 00:24:33,530 --> 00:24:43,200 conditions of such a deal should have and on what a reasonable fee is. So after a 236 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:50,010 long time, years of negotiating and no real progress, what happened is that 237 00:24:50,010 --> 00:24:55,600 Project DEAL, so scientists and librarians, currently suspended the negotiations with 238 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:03,910 Elsevier. And this is something new. And it's definitely something big. And I can 239 00:25:03,910 --> 00:25:09,710 tell you that the world is watching Project DEAL and Germany. And this is 240 00:25:09,710 --> 00:25:16,890 where the power of joining forces really shows up. Because scientists and 241 00:25:16,890 --> 00:25:24,400 librarians are really emphasizing the need for such a deal to Elsevier. For example, 242 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:30,130 scientists stop to offer their cost-free work to Elsevier. So they are no longer 243 00:25:30,130 --> 00:25:35,790 publishing with Elsevier or doing the peer review. If you are one of them or will be 244 00:25:35,790 --> 00:25:40,799 one of them after this talk please let your library know, because we collect this 245 00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:48,940 information to make sure that Elsevier knows. And libraries, well they just 246 00:25:48,940 --> 00:25:54,690 cancel their subscriptions to Elsevier journals. Yes. There are currently 200 247 00:25:54,690 --> 00:26:00,490 German institutions without subscription access to Elsevier publications and there 248 00:26:00,490 --> 00:26:05,059 will be even more next year. The Max Planck Society canceled the contract to 249 00:26:05,059 --> 00:26:10,340 the end of this year. So these are a lot of scientists without access to Elsevier 250 00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:18,710 publications. And it's a lot of saved money. And what happened after we got cut 251 00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:28,120 off from Elsevier publications six month ago? Well, the world of science didn't 252 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:33,429 break down, neither did the world of libraries. What happens is that scientists 253 00:26:33,429 --> 00:26:38,840 use alternative ways to get access. And libraries support these alternative ways. 254 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:46,840 I listed a few of the legal alternatives up here. But speaking of legal, some of 255 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,930 you might now wonder or wonder through the entire talk: Why should we even care about 256 00:26:51,930 --> 00:26:56,590 subscriptions? Why should we pay for access to publishers or use alternative 257 00:26:56,590 --> 00:27:04,049 ways that are legal because Sci-Hub. Sci- Hub is basically ThePirateBay of 258 00:27:04,049 --> 00:27:09,190 science, so you can get nearly any scientific publication there. And I would 259 00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:13,610 like to forward the question on why we should pay for access if we have Sci-Hub 260 00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:20,460 directly to the publishers. But I think that they already know the answer. Because 261 00:27:20,460 --> 00:27:26,180 they do what industries do that face piracy. They took legal action and filed a 262 00:27:26,180 --> 00:27:33,540 lawsuit. They requested that Internet service providers to block Sci-Hub, but 263 00:27:33,540 --> 00:27:41,960 you know Don't mess with the Internet. *Laughing* 264 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:49,450 *Applause* 265 00:27:49,450 --> 00:27:54,160 So dear Publishers, let me put it this way: 266 00:27:54,160 --> 00:28:00,510 as long as you publishers hold on to paywalls there will be piracy, no matter 267 00:28:00,510 --> 00:28:07,600 what. And even worse as long as you hold on to paywalls there will be people, 268 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,640 scientists and librarians, building alternative ways of scientific publishing 269 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:22,730 without you. And the only way to stop this is to tear down the paywalls. And to you, 270 00:28:22,730 --> 00:28:26,850 the brilliant atmospheric scientist and all the other brilliant scientists in this 271 00:28:26,850 --> 00:28:33,511 room, please provide open access to your publications and support open access in 272 00:28:33,511 --> 00:28:41,330 any way that you like or that you can. And if you have any questions or concerns or 273 00:28:41,330 --> 00:28:47,880 any ideas I can only encourage you to talk to your librarian. Because, if we work 274 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:54,700 together, if we join our forces, I think that we can finally unlock science. 275 00:28:54,700 --> 00:29:06,440 Thank you. *Applause* 276 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:20,780 H: Thanks for this amazing talk. OK everybody you know the rules if you have 277 00:29:20,780 --> 00:29:25,220 questions please line up at the microphones. There's five of them, 278 00:29:25,220 --> 00:29:32,290 two there, two there and one there in the corner. And if you are on the stream just 279 00:29:32,290 --> 00:29:35,950 somehow asked the question I'm not really aware how it works and then we have 280 00:29:35,950 --> 00:29:41,870 someone here to read the questions out to be our human interface device. So 281 00:29:41,870 --> 00:29:46,000 please,... microphone number one. Microphone 1: Thank you for your talk. 282 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,660 I completely agree with your professional opinion, but 283 00:29:50,660 --> 00:29:55,290 I think the publishers have one major advantage over the scientists and the 284 00:29:55,290 --> 00:29:58,890 librarian here, which we did not address yet and I want to ask you this 285 00:29:58,890 --> 00:30:07,130 question.The publishers, they have the brands, we as scientists need. What I mean 286 00:30:07,130 --> 00:30:13,740 with that is, apart of the quality assurance scientists did is, we ranked the 287 00:30:13,740 --> 00:30:19,110 journals. We gave them impact factors and other things. So the journal itself has a 288 00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:23,820 quality number, so for a young scientist, at least for me, it was really difficult 289 00:30:23,820 --> 00:30:29,140 to publish in a way that gives me the scientific reputation that I need, without 290 00:30:29,140 --> 00:30:35,330 having access to the highly ranked journals of the closed source publishers. 291 00:30:35,330 --> 00:30:40,690 So is there a way we can get out of this deadlock, where we need to publish in these 292 00:30:40,690 --> 00:30:48,410 journals, we do not want to publish in? C: Yeah we can talk about the impact 293 00:30:48,410 --> 00:30:55,840 factor. I love it. It's real love. It's absolutely difficult because this is a 294 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,900 self-enforcing system dealing with reputation. And if you think about it if 295 00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:07,809 all scientists immediately stop to publish with Elsevier or the reputable journals 296 00:31:07,809 --> 00:31:12,660 and would move to another one that has no impact factor at all after five or six 297 00:31:12,660 --> 00:31:17,710 years this Journal would have a high impact factor. But it's true that it's not 298 00:31:17,710 --> 00:31:21,790 that easy to just do it because you want to come forward with your career and it's 299 00:31:21,790 --> 00:31:29,260 a problem but there's no real solution so far for this. So Project DEAL is kind of 300 00:31:29,260 --> 00:31:35,200 addressing this idea by remaining with the major publishers, so this will be the 301 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:44,660 easiest way out for this problem. Yeah. H: Do we have an Internet question? Yes? 302 00:31:44,660 --> 00:31:49,110 Can someone turn on the microphone for the signal angel, please. 303 00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:55,600 Signal Angel: What influence do the university have on the publishing process 304 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:01,160 of their scientists? Can a university force their scientists to publish in a 305 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:11,880 certain way or with a specific publisher? C: No it's not that easy. There are 306 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,780 policies that state that you have to publish open access but most of them do 307 00:32:15,780 --> 00:32:21,220 not define how you can do it, so you can do green or gold or hybrid whatever you 308 00:32:21,220 --> 00:32:25,880 want but they just say that you have to publish open access. 309 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:32,260 H: Microphone number two please. Microphone 2: Hello. The internet has given 310 00:32:32,260 --> 00:32:41,700 everybody access to their own screaming platform, how do we avoid the public 311 00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:45,810 sharing of science to be tainted with all the bad science out there? 312 00:32:45,810 --> 00:32:49,379 C: With what I didn't hear... M2: Bad science, there's a lot, if you 313 00:32:49,379 --> 00:32:52,310 look at the newspaper, there's a lot of fake news in them. 314 00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:56,330 C: You should absolutely not remove the peer review process at the moment out of 315 00:32:56,330 --> 00:33:00,580 this scientific publishing process. So there should be some quality control but 316 00:33:00,580 --> 00:33:07,690 there are some ideas to change the way peer review is done. But if you remove it, 317 00:33:07,690 --> 00:33:10,620 yeah, then you have a problem at the moment. 318 00:33:10,620 --> 00:33:16,640 H: Microphone number three, please. Microphone 3: Hello, do you have any 319 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:22,620 statistics about how many Open Access publications there are compared to I would 320 00:33:22,620 --> 00:33:29,260 say classical Elsevier and stuff or if the movement is advancing, if it's getting 321 00:33:29,260 --> 00:33:37,270 traction. C: Yeah I stated the source of the 72% are 322 00:33:37,270 --> 00:33:42,270 closed access publications and there's a detailed analysis on how many articles are 323 00:33:42,270 --> 00:33:48,470 closed, hybrid, gold, green. I published the slides already I will tweet them 324 00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:51,090 later. M3: Thank you. 325 00:33:51,090 --> 00:33:57,820 H: And the signal angel, please. S: What do you think about the Plan S 326 00:33:57,820 --> 00:34:03,500 initiative? C: Plan S, for those who don't know: It's 327 00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:08,929 a coalition of research funders in Europe not the Deutsche Forschungsgemeindschaft, 328 00:34:08,929 --> 00:34:16,690 but all others and they want to have Open Access immediately so they say when you 329 00:34:16,690 --> 00:34:20,949 work for us, if you're funded by us you have to publish Open Access and I think 330 00:34:20,949 --> 00:34:27,659 that this is a good approach. H: Can we get microphone 2 please. 331 00:34:27,659 --> 00:34:37,109 M2: Hi, Could the journals printed by various universities like solve that issue 332 00:34:37,109 --> 00:34:44,510 which was raised here about having a well- known brand behind the publications. For 333 00:34:44,510 --> 00:34:52,960 example if you have a university, which is very famous it can release their own 334 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:58,730 journal and solve that brand issue. C: If they release their own journal I 335 00:34:58,730 --> 00:35:05,520 hope it's open access. But I think that it's in general an illusion to think that 336 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,460 the name of the journal or the publisher has anything to do with the quality of a 337 00:35:10,460 --> 00:35:17,830 single paper in there. So this linked idea I think it's kind of broken. 338 00:35:17,830 --> 00:35:24,869 H: Microphone number one, please. Microphone 1: I was wondering, why the 339 00:35:24,869 --> 00:35:30,680 publishers move against Sci-Hub, but leave arXiv.org alone for all these years, 340 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,450 you essentially get the same thing from both. I know that there are differences in 341 00:35:35,450 --> 00:35:39,849 the details... C: it's restricted to a specific community 342 00:35:39,849 --> 00:35:46,490 and so it's not for all publications and it's still about prints and postprints so 343 00:35:46,490 --> 00:35:51,280 it's not the final publisher version but I think that they didn't because it's a 344 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:58,980 powerful tool and it's a powerful community. 345 00:35:58,980 --> 00:36:02,010 H: Could we get the Internet again, please. 346 00:36:02,010 --> 00:36:08,270 S: Someone in the Internet has heard that scientists sued the editors asking for a 347 00:36:08,270 --> 00:36:13,320 share of the profit of their work. Did you get any feedback how this ended? 348 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:19,619 C: No but that sounds interesting. No, sorry. 349 00:36:19,619 --> 00:36:24,720 H: Number four, please. Microphone 4: Historically, journals 350 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:31,849 provided three aspects for scientists. They provided logistics like delivery of papers 351 00:36:31,849 --> 00:36:36,980 to whoever wanted to read them, they provided editors which is like not peer 352 00:36:36,980 --> 00:36:42,370 review, but the editors which are hired by journals and they provide reputational 353 00:36:42,370 --> 00:36:48,840 engines. Obviously putting PDF online solves a problem, so logistics is no 354 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:54,110 longer a problem for a fully decentralized alternative to the journals. Can we 355 00:36:54,110 --> 00:36:59,060 decentralize others too? C: I actually didn't hear the question 356 00:36:59,060 --> 00:37:02,670 properly, I'm sorry! H: Try again. 357 00:37:02,670 --> 00:37:07,720 M4: So journals are providing three services, they provide.. 358 00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:14,359 C: Free services? M4: Three like number three. They provide 359 00:37:14,359 --> 00:37:20,180 delivery to whoever wants to read them. They provide reputation engine and they 360 00:37:20,180 --> 00:37:28,210 provide editors - like not peer reviewers but real editors on salary. We can 361 00:37:28,210 --> 00:37:33,220 decentralize with internet, we can decentralize delivery. Can we decentralize 362 00:37:33,220 --> 00:37:37,820 editors, can we decentralize reputations? H: Is there going to be a question at any 363 00:37:37,820 --> 00:37:41,930 point? C: Yeah I got the question I think. But 364 00:37:41,930 --> 00:37:49,580 did you know that editors are also scientists? So they are already scientists 365 00:37:49,580 --> 00:37:57,320 doing this work. So I really question the high value that publishers provide to 366 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:05,680 science. I think there is some value but it's not that high as we all thought. 367 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:11,320 H: Number 2 please. Microphone 2: Does project DEAL include 368 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:16,100 any incentives for the scientists to publish gold open access instead of 369 00:38:16,100 --> 00:38:21,780 hybrid? C: So if you publish with a publisher that 370 00:38:21,780 --> 00:38:26,530 has a deal with your university that it will be open access no matter what. 371 00:38:26,530 --> 00:38:31,869 M2: Does it include incentives to publish in journals that are ONLY open access 372 00:38:31,869 --> 00:38:38,330 instead of mixed open and closed access? C: No, no, not so far I know. 373 00:38:38,330 --> 00:38:42,550 H: OK, just a quick interjection: Please remember when you leave, please leave 374 00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:46,780 after the talk. But when you leave please use the front exit and not the entrance in 375 00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:52,320 the back. Thank you. Could we get another internet question? OK the internet is out 376 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,680 of questions. That's excellent. Number one please. 377 00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:04,510 Microphone 1: *inaudible* limited advantage to close access journals maybe 378 00:39:04,510 --> 00:39:10,280 it would be a good idea to rethink the format of the publishing. I don't want to 379 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:16,970 advertise it, but I think it's a good example: There is distill.pub, which is a 380 00:39:16,970 --> 00:39:23,940 journal for artificial intelligence at the moment mostly and they publish it in HTML 381 00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:32,720 because it's the current year and you have interactive stuff so you can play around 382 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:35,850 with it and it's really nice. C: Yeah. I think it would be better if we 383 00:39:35,850 --> 00:39:41,500 wouldn't have only PDFs published from the journal articles. There should be a other 384 00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:49,580 formats definitely - machine readable. H: Mic number 2 please for the last 385 00:39:49,580 --> 00:39:55,030 question. Microphone 2: Like you said your opinion 386 00:39:55,030 --> 00:40:00,300 is at least questionable if what publishers provide to science and to 387 00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:03,535 society that's worth something or worth what we think. 388 00:40:03,535 --> 00:40:05,300 I also think this way and if I have a 389 00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:09,800 manuscript now that I don't want to publish in this way the system. Do you 390 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:16,200 have any recommendations, maybe any project or something where I could maybe say 391 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:21,340 here's my manuscript and then especially have a solution for the peer review 392 00:40:21,340 --> 00:40:28,540 process that is now facilitated by the publisher, but the publisher doesn't do 393 00:40:28,540 --> 00:40:33,700 anything he's just facilitating. So how could I solve this and go around the 394 00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:38,790 publisher in this way? C: So. I'm not sure whether I get the 395 00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:44,399 question because if you have open access journals that's also peer review. Yes 396 00:40:44,399 --> 00:40:47,591 there are publishers but if you have platinum open access this peer review 397 00:40:47,591 --> 00:40:52,640 process organized with the library or scientists that are running the journal. 398 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:57,720 So this is already organized. The peer review process for other sorts of journals 399 00:40:57,720 --> 00:41:03,430 that do not have a paywall. M2: But could these platinum open access 400 00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:07,010 journals cover all fields of science. Could i come with my.. 401 00:41:07,010 --> 00:41:10,980 H: There are a lot of there. There are a lot out of there. I can tell you how you 402 00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:15,270 can find them. There is a directory of open access journals where you can filter 403 00:41:15,270 --> 00:41:21,109 through any subjects and filter for how much do they cost. 404 00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:24,719 H: And now please thank our speak again! 405 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:30,233 *Applause* 406 00:41:30,233 --> 00:41:35,649 *35C3 postroll music* 407 00:41:35,649 --> 00:41:52,026 subtitles created by c3subtitles.de in the year 2019. Join, and help us!