1 00:00:00,099 --> 00:00:14,990 *34C3 preroll music* 2 00:00:14,990 --> 00:00:20,670 Herald (H): Let me introduce: It's Sir Wombat and Nero Lapislucis. So, give them 3 00:00:20,670 --> 00:00:28,110 a warm welcome and everybody is interested in how to get the stuff done. 4 00:00:30,970 --> 00:00:32,650 Nero (N): *unaudible* 5 00:00:43,650 --> 00:00:47,800 We are going to present our juice press, which is this gorgeous instrument you can 6 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:52,519 see over there. And then we will talk about the fermentation vessel 7 00:00:52,519 --> 00:00:57,469 you will need if you want to build one yourself. And we will explain shortly 8 00:00:57,469 --> 00:01:03,209 again how you can create alcohol out of the yeast and the fruit juice. Afterwards 9 00:01:03,209 --> 00:01:09,950 we will present the model of a still which you can see over there on the desk. 10 00:01:13,510 --> 00:01:18,760 Sir Wombat (W): By model we mean it doesn't actually work, it only looks like it. 11 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:25,740 N: It's a kind of a hypothetical operation of a miniature still. Afterwards you will 12 00:01:25,740 --> 00:01:32,791 get to know an alternative method of getting high percent alcohol, which is the 13 00:01:32,791 --> 00:01:41,950 ice rifing. This is that. So, who are we? I'm Nero, I am kind of a professional 14 00:01:41,950 --> 00:01:47,280 viking. Why am I presenting this talk? I was studying abroad in Norway and I was 15 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,890 too broke to buy the beer, so I had to find some solutions and I started making 16 00:01:51,890 --> 00:01:58,009 the wine. And Sir Wombat over there is an electrical engineer and he's just trying 17 00:01:58,009 --> 00:02:05,729 to build stuff since forever. Let's start with the juice press. I don't know - Do we 18 00:02:05,729 --> 00:02:09,740 have the camera? Or are we doing it without? 19 00:02:09,740 --> 00:02:17,390 *Laughter* W: I can just hold it up and maybe you see it. 20 00:02:17,390 --> 00:02:19,940 N: So basically what we have is a wooden frame 21 00:02:19,940 --> 00:02:24,380 and then there is a car jack attached to it. 22 00:02:24,380 --> 00:02:30,250 With that we press this kind of wooden block down. And then we have on the 23 00:02:30,250 --> 00:02:36,250 right hand side it's like this wood part which has a special shape so the juice can 24 00:02:36,250 --> 00:02:42,080 run off. This is on the lower side. And there is the fruit between it. And with 25 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:47,230 the car jack you get lots of pressure. Actually if you boil the mash you can just 26 00:02:47,230 --> 00:02:53,210 use the kitchen towel. But it's a lot of work. So this is actually kind of nice. 27 00:02:53,210 --> 00:03:00,600 *Inaudible question from the audience* N: Yeah, you can do it with whole apples. 28 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,370 You can cut them beforehand: You can put them in the oven for a little while and it 29 00:03:04,370 --> 00:03:11,150 makes it a lot easier. I don't know, I think it's easier if you kind of boil them 30 00:03:11,150 --> 00:03:15,280 or put them in the oven beforehand and cut them. Then you get a little bit more juice. 31 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,710 Because what you see when you try this is that you have a lot of work. 32 00:03:19,710 --> 00:03:27,640 And a lot of fruit for actually very little juice. Yeah, it's a lot of work 33 00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:32,740 W: *Inaudible* N: The thing is that the fruit juice, what 34 00:03:32,740 --> 00:03:40,150 is useful for the alcohol, it's basically just the sugar water. You can cheat which 35 00:03:40,150 --> 00:03:44,810 is actually not allowed, but in theory you might cheat and add sugar to your fruit 36 00:03:44,810 --> 00:03:50,870 juice, then the yeast has more kind of fruit and more basics to produce the 37 00:03:50,870 --> 00:03:55,730 alcohol from. So you can add molasses to the fruit juice and that will increase the 38 00:03:55,730 --> 00:04:05,820 alcohol outcome of your molasses. This is in basics the process you just heard 39 00:04:05,820 --> 00:04:09,390 about. You have the sugar water and yeast. And the yeast is working in the sugar 40 00:04:09,390 --> 00:04:13,940 water and by that creating alcohol and CO2. That's why you need the fermentation 41 00:04:13,940 --> 00:04:17,960 vessel, which we will talk about in the next part. You can basically just use 42 00:04:21,060 --> 00:04:25,060 normal yeast from the supermarket. You could also use some yeast cultures which 43 00:04:25,060 --> 00:04:28,560 are on the fruits. There are also some kind of hippie wine producers which just 44 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:34,000 use the apples like they are and use the cultures which already are on them. But 45 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,340 it's better to use this specialized yeast, because you have optimal alcohol outcome 46 00:04:37,340 --> 00:04:44,720 and lower risk that there are other bacteria evolving. What you don't want is 47 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:49,490 that there is oxygen coming into your fermentation process, because then what 48 00:04:49,490 --> 00:04:54,310 you get isn't alcohol but vinegar. It just kind of tastes disgusting and it's not 49 00:04:54,310 --> 00:04:59,770 what you make it for. That's why we are building the fermentation vessel. It's 50 00:04:59,770 --> 00:05:08,371 basically just a mechanism to keep the air away. These are the ingredients you will 51 00:05:08,371 --> 00:05:14,600 need to do. On the left hand side is my first experiment, on the right side is Sir 52 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:20,410 Wombat's. He has this special thing that he puts a pen in a kind of peanut butter 53 00:05:20,410 --> 00:05:24,650 jar beforehand so the whole thing sticks better. You don't really need to do that 54 00:05:28,650 --> 00:05:33,310 if your hose is kind of thick enough. I had this guzzling hose and it worked just 55 00:05:33,310 --> 00:05:43,460 fine. You have to fix the hose in your fermentation vessel and in this kind of 56 00:05:43,460 --> 00:05:50,130 jar which is filled with water. You can just use glue for that but it needs to be 57 00:05:50,130 --> 00:05:55,720 airproof. What's happening is the CO2 which comes from the fermentation process 58 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:02,120 can leave the vessel through the hose. So it just goes into the glass of water. The 59 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:08,220 effect is that no oxigen can come in and go the other way around. So it's really 60 00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:15,330 simple. It's useful to have a fermentation starter. For that you start with 61 00:06:15,330 --> 00:06:20,850 activating the dried yeast. The thing with that is, that you give the yeast, which 62 00:06:20,850 --> 00:06:26,110 you want to have a good life in there, a head start ahead of all other bacterias or 63 00:06:26,110 --> 00:06:34,200 kind of microbes which would want to evolve in there. It's not that important 64 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,290 that you keep the air out because you don't keep it for that long. What you do 65 00:06:38,290 --> 00:06:42,590 is: You take the yeast you want, you put sugar in there and you put the molasses in 66 00:06:42,590 --> 00:06:47,020 there. You just give it a head start with a lot of sugar and you keep it in there 67 00:06:47,020 --> 00:06:54,280 for kind of about 12 hours. Then you put it in the fermentation vessel and add the 68 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:59,430 rest of the molasses. So it's not really in there for that long. Because of that 69 00:06:59,430 --> 00:07:04,880 it's not that important to keep the air out. It doesn't have that much contact. 70 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:09,260 Here you can see the fermentation process. This is kind of a peanut butter jar and 71 00:07:09,260 --> 00:07:18,180 there is the air and CO2 coming out. It looks like that when the fermentation is 72 00:07:18,180 --> 00:07:24,390 running on high it can get a lot faster. But most of the time - It's also this nice 73 00:07:24,390 --> 00:07:30,190 blubbing sound. If you keep it in your room - you will have a good night. How 74 00:07:30,190 --> 00:07:34,390 will you know when your fermentation ends? Some of the yeast will die. You will 75 00:07:34,390 --> 00:07:38,370 notice this at the bottom of the fermentation vessel. It will just float 76 00:07:38,370 --> 00:07:44,930 down. You will also notice that the fermentation process is getting a lot 77 00:07:44,930 --> 00:07:49,350 slower. Why does this happen? Either you have already too much alcohol for the 78 00:07:49,350 --> 00:07:53,061 yeast to survive. This depends a bit on the kind of yeast you are using, but 79 00:07:53,061 --> 00:07:59,820 mostly it's about 15% you can get. Or maybe there's just no sugar left. You 80 00:07:59,820 --> 00:08:03,240 don't really want that to happen because then it doesn't really taste that good. 81 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:08,220 But basically it's also a possibility if you just want the alcohol. Just remember 82 00:08:08,220 --> 00:08:13,590 that you shouldn't bottle it before it's totally finished because there's... As 83 00:08:13,590 --> 00:08:17,270 long as there is still some fermentation going on, there is also CO2 coming out and 84 00:08:17,270 --> 00:08:23,280 your bottle might explode. You don't want that. But if you continue with distilling 85 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,050 the whole thing it doesn't really matter because you work with it and you don't 86 00:08:27,050 --> 00:08:33,458 bottle it. So what do we do now? We have the finished wine in the fermentation 87 00:08:33,458 --> 00:08:39,749 vessel and you have the dead yeast on the ground. You should be careful when you 88 00:08:39,749 --> 00:08:45,689 fill it in bottels or another vessel, because that yeast tastes kind of nasty. 89 00:08:45,689 --> 00:08:49,920 So you should siphon it off. You can also pour it but then you should take a lot of 90 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:58,319 time and be very careful with it. Yes, to measure the alcohol content which will be 91 00:08:58,319 --> 00:09:04,899 as said, explained before about 15% in the mash there's different tools. For the mash 92 00:09:04,899 --> 00:09:11,749 we have the vinometer. If you want to measure it in the steel output you have 93 00:09:11,749 --> 00:09:19,850 the hydrometer.This is when I give over to my friend. Yeah, sugar is a problem in 94 00:09:19,850 --> 00:09:26,560 measuring actually because it confuses the instrument - both of them. So you should 95 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:32,029 consider this. And actually it's not really that fancy so you can get both of 96 00:09:32,029 --> 00:09:41,740 them for like 10€. It's useful to have. We had that already. The results you get with 97 00:09:41,740 --> 00:09:48,329 the fruit wine is normally between 6% and 13%. 13 is already kind of high. If you 98 00:09:48,329 --> 00:09:54,449 just use the process like I explained it, it's probably a bit less. So that's 99 00:09:54,449 --> 00:10:01,589 actually why you would want to destill it afterwards. W: So we're talking about what 100 00:10:01,589 --> 00:10:08,759 would happen if you'd want to build a still. We're not talking about an actual 101 00:10:08,759 --> 00:10:15,459 still. We're talking about a model that looks like it could work, but doesn't. 102 00:10:15,459 --> 00:10:20,360 Because as we said - we wouldn't break any rules, and Stefan said it's not allowed. 103 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:30,079 It's not legal to do so. The thing to build such a model - such a home sized 104 00:10:30,079 --> 00:10:37,050 model, not an semi-professional one, you don't need all the... like 5000€ was the 105 00:10:37,050 --> 00:10:44,800 cheaptest professional one we talked about. For such a tiny model you could get 106 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:51,879 away with 75€ if you're really resourceful like using an old pressure cooker from the 107 00:10:51,879 --> 00:10:58,459 GDR. Those are finally the cheapest ones you find on eBay This size is like 10€ - 108 00:10:58,459 --> 00:11:06,670 it's a nice thing. Some copper pipes you can get in your hardware store. The type 109 00:11:06,670 --> 00:11:13,750 of copper pipe is used to connect fridges. Like for that fresh water and ice cube 110 00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:19,779 feature fridges have. *unaudible* 111 00:11:19,779 --> 00:11:27,509 The cooling system is just an old canister and some electronics I'll talk about 112 00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:42,059 later. Let's just get back to the slides. Back to the slides please. Thanks. 113 00:11:42,059 --> 00:11:48,480 The temperature sensing - we'll talk later about... And then that's it. So you just 114 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:57,709 connect the copper pipes like this in a T-form with a cork on top. And the screw 115 00:11:57,709 --> 00:12:04,880 thing on the bottom to connect it to the lid of the pressure cooker. At that point 116 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:10,410 you use like an end cap for the copper pipe, drill a hole into it and connect the 117 00:12:10,410 --> 00:12:19,040 thinner copper pipe to it. That will go onto the pressure cooker like this. Then 118 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,629 you need to do some soldering. Most of you probably know how to solder. This another 119 00:12:23,629 --> 00:12:30,420 kind of soldering. It's the same thing - you use tin and copper and some flux to 120 00:12:30,420 --> 00:12:37,500 make it flow easier. And not a soldering iron but a blow torch, but that's all the 121 00:12:37,500 --> 00:12:48,209 difference there is. And then you just drill a hole into your cut open canister, 122 00:12:48,209 --> 00:12:54,250 push it on there and use lots of glue to make it waterproof - It's no rocket 123 00:12:54,250 --> 00:13:03,569 science. Then the temperature measurement we want to have that because in theory you 124 00:13:03,569 --> 00:13:14,589 need a very precise measurement. In practice it didn't seem like we couldn't 125 00:13:14,589 --> 00:13:20,749 live without it, but it's very interesting and it's helpful. How do we do that? Just 126 00:13:20,749 --> 00:13:26,230 use on of those cheap integrated digital temperature sensors, a Raspberry Pi, a 127 00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:33,639 real time clock to date the measurement protocol - that's just nice to have - and 128 00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:41,639 a bit of python script. Mine is ugly, so it's not published, but everybody can do 129 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:50,240 it. It's like a day of work that will output a small website that shows the 130 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:56,850 current temperature graph. You can click on this link and download the current 131 00:13:56,850 --> 00:14:01,509 temperature, like all the measurements as an Excel-file, and you can even download 132 00:14:01,509 --> 00:14:08,489 former measurements. And that's why we need the realtime clock so that we don't 133 00:14:08,489 --> 00:14:16,750 start a chaos. That's all there is. If you have WiFi that's nice because you can 134 00:14:16,750 --> 00:14:21,269 leave the room well it's running. But yeah, you see something is not going well 135 00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:30,239 and then you rush back. So you probably stay with it anyway. Now, this is how a 136 00:14:30,239 --> 00:14:37,129 hypothetical run-through would look like. A tablet in the background, showing the 137 00:14:37,129 --> 00:14:41,860 temperatures, the WiFi-router ... *Laughter* 138 00:14:41,860 --> 00:14:52,069 It's a really great guy that he puts up with this. So yeah, you open the lid, you 139 00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:59,059 put in your mash. Remember this is only a model. Then if your pressure cooker has a 140 00:14:59,059 --> 00:15:07,860 broken locking-mechanism you use some chains and a screw to keep the lid closed. 141 00:15:07,860 --> 00:15:13,750 It's not as critical as actual pressure cooker operation. 142 00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:20,860 *Laughter and applause* Yeah. It's not as critical as actual 143 00:15:20,860 --> 00:15:25,110 pressure cooker operation because there will be no pressure. If pressure builds up 144 00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:33,429 you made some big mistake like plugging up the cooling pipe. If you thought the chain 145 00:15:33,429 --> 00:15:43,589 was funny then come around and show the safety valve. it's like... yeah... as As I 146 00:15:43,589 --> 00:15:49,410 said it's all cheap and made up. But it works. No, it doesn't. 147 00:15:49,410 --> 00:15:56,720 *Laughter* It could work, so, as I said, you put mash 148 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:06,159 in, close the lid, turn on the gas stove. It's a gas stove because with no other 149 00:16:06,159 --> 00:16:14,089 kind of stove you can regulate the power as fast - maybe with an induction heater - but 150 00:16:14,089 --> 00:16:21,110 that doesn't work with a GDR pressure cooker. Then you started heating. At some 151 00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:26,839 point evaporation will start, it will go up here, pass the thermometers so that we can 152 00:16:26,839 --> 00:16:32,839 see the gas temperature. And then the gas will run in here in the cooler. And there 153 00:16:32,839 --> 00:16:39,759 it hopefully condensates so that we don't blow up the operation. Yeah, we put some 154 00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:46,430 great effort in into our non-functional model. We even painted it to look chalked. (Laughter) 155 00:16:46,430 --> 00:16:51,910 There is another thermometer in here so that we see that the cooling system is as 156 00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:53,419 cold as it's supposed to be. 157 00:16:54,899 --> 00:16:59,889 And then if it would work the alcohol would drop out 158 00:16:59,889 --> 00:17:05,610 here and run over the last temperature sensor so we can see 159 00:17:05,610 --> 00:17:10,360 how warm it is. 160 00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:14,229 Because if it gets too warm it will be vapor and that's bad. 161 00:17:14,229 --> 00:17:16,479 And just for the fun of it there's an 162 00:17:16,479 --> 00:17:22,569 additional temperature sensor on the connector board that's this 163 00:17:22,569 --> 00:17:30,340 one here. Yeah. It's just to measure the room temperature.So, yeah, now we come to 164 00:17:30,340 --> 00:17:35,584 a totally made up graph of an operation. 165 00:17:35,584 --> 00:17:40,039 The red line is the gas temperature that 166 00:17:40,039 --> 00:17:45,720 is always the most important one. Because at the current gas temperature, you can 167 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:54,059 see what, or you can at least guess, what chemical is currently running ... 168 00:17:54,059 --> 00:17:56,829 evaporating. 169 00:17:56,829 --> 00:18:03,919 The big plateau you can see at the top that is where the alcohol would 170 00:18:03,919 --> 00:18:10,200 be, assuming that for a long time there would be alcohol coming out of the mash, 171 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:18,000 that turns into a plateau. The orange temperature is the air temperature. The 172 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:24,150 green line is what the output temperature would be. At the beginning it's something 173 00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:32,500 like the room temperature. And then at the point where actual product starts dripping 174 00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:40,179 out it cools down to the cooling water temperature and then running through it at 175 00:18:40,179 --> 00:18:46,810 some point it will start separating because the cooling can't keep up because we don't 176 00:18:46,810 --> 00:18:52,169 have a run-through cooler, we just have water in there, and that will start to 177 00:18:52,169 --> 00:18:59,500 heat up. The ticks at the end, where the temperature suddenly drops, yeah, that 178 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:05,630 could be caused by having too high temperature and too much alcohol running 179 00:19:05,630 --> 00:19:11,690 through the cooler. So then you'd turn down the heat a bit and it would start to 180 00:19:11,690 --> 00:19:16,471 drop, and then you turn back up and it starts rising again. And at the end of a 181 00:19:16,471 --> 00:19:22,290 run-through, when you open the lid again and the cold air comes there all the 182 00:19:22,290 --> 00:19:29,500 temperatures drop again. And you're done with it. So as I said, it's all 183 00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:37,450 hypothetical. And the hypothetical results could be something like ... Stop! There 184 00:19:37,450 --> 00:19:46,899 was this methanol thing. So, with a still of this size, you won't get any dangerous 185 00:19:46,899 --> 00:19:59,070 amounts of methanol. Yeah, we just...To be safe we drop the first 15 ml. We dispose 186 00:19:59,070 --> 00:20:02,910 of them properly by burning them on the ground. 187 00:20:02,910 --> 00:20:03,160 *laughter* 188 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:14,440 Then, what could the output look like? 189 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:21,600 If you would do this, it'd be a great idea to separate the output in 100 190 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:26,159 ml jars and measure each separately, so that you can follow what happens. 191 00:20:26,159 --> 00:20:34,590 And it could be like the first jar would be maybe 58%; maybe the 9th jar would be 35%, 192 00:20:34,590 --> 00:20:39,309 because the higher the temperature gets the more water evaporates and so the 193 00:20:39,309 --> 00:20:41,430 alcohol rate is lower. 194 00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:49,070 Of those six glasses maybe the first six would be 195 00:20:49,070 --> 00:20:55,500 usable, because the afterrun that has the stuff that evaporates at the higher 196 00:20:55,500 --> 00:21:04,049 temperatures would taste bad. And if you wanted higher percentages, you could just 197 00:21:04,049 --> 00:21:11,730 still it again and then you'd maybe get up to 78%. As Francisco already said, we 198 00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:20,190 measure the output of the still - we would measure it - with the hydrometer. 199 00:21:20,190 --> 00:21:29,179 And then 78% percent is nothing you ever drink, you only taste alcohol and nothing of the 200 00:21:29,179 --> 00:21:36,100 fruit, so if you had a still output with 78%, you would dilute it with water to 201 00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:38,622 get it to 40. 202 00:21:38,622 --> 00:21:47,269 Now, this is illegal, so we don't do it, but there is another method 203 00:21:47,269 --> 00:21:56,590 which is kind of interesting. It basically uses the same principle, just it's not 204 00:21:56,590 --> 00:22:02,510 separate boiling points, but separate freezing points. And then, to use this, 205 00:22:02,510 --> 00:22:09,480 you put alcohol -maybe red wine - into a plastic bottle, put it into your freezer, 206 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:15,039 let it freeze through, and then you turn it around, and the first stuff that will 207 00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:22,990 drop out is alcohol. Kind of an interesting picture is this here, because 208 00:22:22,990 --> 00:22:31,020 we have liquid dropping down, which is so cold that the condensation on the other 209 00:22:31,020 --> 00:22:37,490 vessel freezes. So, we know the liquid is something with a freezing point well below 210 00:22:37,490 --> 00:22:43,659 the freezing point of water. If you measure this, you'll see that the output 211 00:22:43,659 --> 00:22:56,299 has something between 20% or 40% when starting with a red wine of 10%, so it 212 00:22:56,299 --> 00:23:02,630 really works. And I found it kind of interesting, because - except some crazy 213 00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:07,430 guy in Bavaria -, I don't know of anybody actually using that. And that guy uses it 214 00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:14,269 to the create world's strongest beer with like 58% and it's still legally beer 215 00:23:14,269 --> 00:23:18,149 because of German laws. *Laughter* 216 00:23:18,149 --> 00:23:28,049 Here we see... That's the stuff that stayed in the bottle, after it unfroze. 217 00:23:28,049 --> 00:23:33,840 And that's the stuff that dripped out below, so if you put a light behind it, 218 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:41,850 you see that's the one side is much darker, so apparently the pigment is 219 00:23:41,850 --> 00:23:50,429 soluble in alcohol. It's just an interesting fact we saw, too. Well, that's 220 00:23:50,429 --> 00:23:57,250 what we did. So in conclusion, it's totally possible to build a non-functional 221 00:23:57,250 --> 00:24:04,740 model of a still with hardware-store parts. Running this... risks exist, but 222 00:24:04,740 --> 00:24:09,650 are manageable. Watch out for proper cooling; with such a cooler, it's just... 223 00:24:09,650 --> 00:24:16,940 make sure that there is water in it before you start it. Methanol poisoning can be 224 00:24:16,940 --> 00:24:27,580 prevented by using a clean mash like mash you'd drink unstilled. And discarding the 225 00:24:27,580 --> 00:24:36,000 first 15 ml. And if you had something like this and say you tried to still whisky, 226 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:43,559 you should look out for foaming, because if you try to run it too fast, maybe the 227 00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:51,639 mash would foam up and clog your still and it'd be bad. So yeah, don't do that. In 228 00:24:51,639 --> 00:24:55,830 conclusion, it's great fun... theoretically. 229 00:24:55,830 --> 00:25:00,380 *Laughter* And yes, do not do this. It's illegal. 230 00:25:00,380 --> 00:25:02,140 Thank you. 231 00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:11,390 *Applause* 232 00:25:11,390 --> 00:25:17,549 H: What a fabulous, practical introduction. So we have now five minutes 233 00:25:17,549 --> 00:25:25,380 for Q and A... Everybody who wants to ask a question please go to the microphones, 234 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:35,799 and please stay in the room for this five minutes. If there are any... Keep in mind, 235 00:25:35,799 --> 00:25:42,389 this time everybody has to go out on this side. So is there any question in the 236 00:25:42,389 --> 00:25:42,639 room? Microphone 1 please. 237 00:25:42,639 --> 00:25:50,019 Mic1: Yes, thank you for the talk. Thank 238 00:25:50,019 --> 00:25:57,630 you for the ideas. Do you know how the legal aspects are in Switzerland? 239 00:25:57,630 --> 00:26:00,869 *Restrained laughter* 240 00:26:00,869 --> 00:26:06,049 Stefan (S): In Switzerland you guys are 241 00:26:06,049 --> 00:26:10,049 actually quite well off, because you are allowed to have small stills until the 242 00:26:10,049 --> 00:26:18,120 capacity of 5 litres. We have until the end of the 2070ies that 0.5 l, which is 243 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:24,360 basically useless. You can try it once, but for each run you get maybe a shot of 244 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:30,639 usable liquor. In Switzerland, you have 5 l and then you get at least some... yeah, 245 00:26:30,639 --> 00:26:36,039 200 ml of usable spirits, and this is actually fun to tinker with. This is 246 00:26:36,039 --> 00:26:40,659 something you and your fellows can, well, have a decent evening. 247 00:26:40,659 --> 00:26:45,470 H: Microphone 5. Mic5: Yeah, so... When I saw the 248 00:26:45,470 --> 00:26:50,409 electronics, that's usually not so safe to drink from lead and everything. So, do you 249 00:26:50,409 --> 00:26:55,649 have any tips for how to solder, so it's safe for drinking? 250 00:26:55,649 --> 00:27:04,989 W: Yeah, I forgot to mention it, we used lead free solder. That's a really great 251 00:27:04,989 --> 00:27:12,590 comment of you. And I looked it up and solder, you can find it in the hardware 252 00:27:12,590 --> 00:27:18,703 store next to the copper tubes that is lead-free. But check that to be sure. 253 00:27:18,703 --> 00:27:22,619 You don't want lead into your spirits. 254 00:27:22,619 --> 00:27:24,059 H: Microphone 1. 255 00:27:24,059 --> 00:27:30,710 Mic1: Would you do the cooling per air flow instead of water? 256 00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:39,000 W: I've seen online some people who did that with a construction that looked kind 257 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:45,909 of like a CPU cooler attached to something which had the vaporized alcohol run 258 00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:56,899 through it. I mean, it'd be illegal to try, so I haven't and... But this guy 259 00:27:56,899 --> 00:28:03,890 apparently has and it worked for him, so.. Yeah. But I don't know how you'd 260 00:28:03,890 --> 00:28:10,110 construct the copper block which you attach to the CPU cooler, so there's that. 261 00:28:10,110 --> 00:28:16,669 S: I've seen silver etchings in really, really old manuscripts that were using 262 00:28:16,669 --> 00:28:22,570 just air to cool down, but... well, that's technology 500 years ago that says "Yeah, 263 00:28:22,570 --> 00:28:25,778 use water." 264 00:28:25,778 --> 00:28:27,450 H: Microphone 5. 265 00:28:27,450 --> 00:28:37,889 Mic5: You showed the glass part still and you said this could not be purchased after 266 00:28:37,889 --> 00:28:44,100 the 1st of January, right? But if you just purchase the single parts, because it's 267 00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:48,179 standard lab equipment, is this also illegal? 268 00:28:48,179 --> 00:28:52,529 S: Yes, I mean, you don't purchase a still per se, do you? 269 00:28:52,529 --> 00:28:55,659 Mic5: Exactly, it's standard glass... S: I don't think this is gonna be a 270 00:28:55,659 --> 00:29:01,429 problem, but, you know there's laboratory equipments and they sell you a still made 271 00:29:01,429 --> 00:29:08,799 from glass for training distillation... And this costs some 250 euros and they 272 00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:14,960 sell you the same exact part this still is made of for cheaper. So basically, order 3 273 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,809 or times...3 or 4 times different equipment parts, maybe from different... 274 00:29:19,809 --> 00:29:24,720 And...I mean, this is ridiculous. Really, it is. 275 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,559 Mic5: Thanks. 276 00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:27,919 H: Okay, Mikrophone 1. 277 00:29:27,919 --> 00:29:32,720 Mic1: Yeah, hi. Thank you for your theoretical explanation. I have one 278 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,700 question but first I just wanted to mention, that you can build all this 279 00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:41,640 without programming. You can buy a physical thing to measure the temperature, 280 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,850 so if anybody is afraid because of that part. And than yeah, my question is there 281 00:29:46,850 --> 00:29:52,690 a reason why you don't use or just mentioned, turbo yeast, stuff like 282 00:29:52,690 --> 00:29:58,880 that where you can reach 20 percents in two days. Is it not that tasty or stuff? 283 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,700 N: Yeah, I think actually we just used the first one, we got hands on, didn't we? 284 00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:10,440 For the first experiments. I mean, you could try it but then you always have, it has 285 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,821 negative parts, so... maybe it's the taste, maybe it's something else. 286 00:30:13,821 --> 00:30:19,637 But I mean, I wouldn't claim that you achieve high quality taste with 287 00:30:19,637 --> 00:30:21,652 what we just showed. 288 00:30:21,652 --> 00:30:24,850 S: I can answer one part for the 289 00:30:24,850 --> 00:30:30,019 "Abfindungsbrennerei", you could use turbo yeast, but turbo yeast is something... 290 00:30:30,019 --> 00:30:34,919 I'm not really sure about the translation. It is called "Hefenährsalze" which is salts, 291 00:30:34,919 --> 00:30:38,975 that you need, to actually have an environment for this turbo yeast. And these 292 00:30:38,975 --> 00:30:42,964 "Hefenährsalze" are unfortunely not allowed in "Abfindungsbrennerei". 293 00:30:42,964 --> 00:30:47,820 So usally you don't...you don't use turbo yeast and you don't actually need it for 294 00:30:47,820 --> 00:30:52,090 fruit spirits. It's okay, if you want to make grain spirits but you know the higher 295 00:30:52,090 --> 00:30:59,010 the yeast ferments the less taste and scent remains in the destillate. 296 00:30:59,010 --> 00:31:03,129 So we won't have taste otherwise we could just buy vodka in the store. 297 00:31:03,129 --> 00:31:09,749 H: Okay, Mikrophone 5, please. Mic5: Thanks again for your talk. 298 00:31:09,749 --> 00:31:15,889 Regarding the cooling. Is it necessary to cool it with room temperature water or why 299 00:31:15,889 --> 00:31:23,440 not chuck in some ice cubes or crushed ice to keep the temperature lower or hinder 300 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,429 the rising of the temperature in the cooling vessel? 301 00:31:26,429 --> 00:31:32,259 W: Well let's say we had run this hypothetical operation in our minds 302 00:31:32,259 --> 00:31:38,160 multiple times. Maybe the first time we had tried it with ice cubes and then 303 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:47,080 started exchanging the water. Maybe we had a few times thought about running it and 304 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:52,759 using just tap water and exchanging the tap water multiple times. And then maybe 305 00:31:52,759 --> 00:31:59,289 in our minds one time we forgot to change the water and it still would have worked, 306 00:31:59,289 --> 00:32:07,640 so we made up all further operations just with a bucket of water and not changing 307 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:13,279 it, so yeah. Point is, that's the easiest way and it works. 308 00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:17,850 M5: Excellent. H: And I saw there is some question from 309 00:32:17,850 --> 00:32:20,850 the internet. Signal angel: Exactly. The internet wants 310 00:32:20,850 --> 00:32:29,950 to know if there is a limit or a legal limit to the freeze destilation of the ice 311 00:32:29,950 --> 00:32:35,330 rifing process? W: I tried to look it up, but I didn't 312 00:32:35,330 --> 00:32:43,889 find anything about it. So, maybe there is a thing that if you... 313 00:32:43,889 --> 00:32:50,440 Let's just stay with the beer guy from Bavaria. The customs actually have a page 314 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:58,749 about producing beer at home. You can do that legally in Germany and the first 100 315 00:32:58,749 --> 00:33:04,960 liters are tax free, so you can just do that. So, yeah, then you have 100 liters 316 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,610 of beer and you start concentrating them and when you are done with that it gets 317 00:33:09,610 --> 00:33:16,549 complicated. So, I guess that's the limit. And then that guy probably just taxes the 318 00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:21,600 further beer and that's how he does it. N: But then you don't have to register 319 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,250 your freezer at the tax office so maybe people won't be that eager to check. 320 00:33:26,250 --> 00:33:31,230 H: Ok then the last two questions, Microphone 1. 321 00:33:31,230 --> 00:33:36,980 Mic1: Okay, so my question is about the freezing method as well. What is about the 322 00:33:36,980 --> 00:33:41,539 methanol for the freezing method. Is there some way to get rid of this, or is it 323 00:33:41,539 --> 00:33:47,519 really unnecessary? W: Well, as I said the stuff in the 324 00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:54,350 pictures was red wine from Aldi because you don't experiment with expensive stuff. 325 00:33:54,350 --> 00:34:03,570 And if I drink a whole bottle of Aldi red wine, nothing bad happens to me. So I 326 00:34:03,570 --> 00:34:08,260 guess if I take any part of a bottle of red wine from Aldi, nothing bad will 327 00:34:08,260 --> 00:34:10,180 happen, too. So there's that. 328 00:34:10,180 --> 00:34:15,470 Mic1: So there shouldn't be methanol in the orginal stuff. 329 00:34:15,470 --> 00:34:20,588 A: There probably will be but less enough so that it's not a problem. 330 00:34:20,588 --> 00:34:22,150 H: Okay. 331 00:34:22,150 --> 00:34:27,540 S:The thing about the methanol is, if I'm allowed to add, methanol comes from the 332 00:34:27,540 --> 00:34:32,962 pectines. Pectines are basically the building substance of the cells. 333 00:34:32,962 --> 00:34:39,020 But if you have juice or wine we already pressed it down and the pectins stay in the stuff 334 00:34:39,020 --> 00:34:45,750 we throw away and so in the juice and in the wine that we cool down so there is 335 00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:51,400 very little methanol in it. That is different if we make a mash and have all 336 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,102 the cell residue still in the mash, then we have the methanol in this mash. 337 00:34:56,110 --> 00:34:59,042 And so we have it in the destillate. 338 00:34:59,042 --> 00:35:02,070 H: Okay, the last question, microphone one please. 339 00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:08,605 Mic1: Hi. Thanks for a great talk. My questions are around the head, hearts and tail, 340 00:35:08,605 --> 00:35:13,190 the hacked distilling method that, I gather, you pretty much did 341 00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:17,200 what you took for second third, fourth part of it, and you divided 342 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:23,940 it up like that. But in the craft distillery, how do you do to use it, but 343 00:35:23,940 --> 00:35:29,100 controlling the temperature of the evaporation and the stilling liquid, or 344 00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:33,889 do you also do it by breaking into segments? What's the technique you used to separate? 345 00:35:33,889 --> 00:35:37,100 S: There's actually many roads that lead 346 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:42,330 to Rome. So you could basically use this fractioning method that there was 347 00:35:42,330 --> 00:35:47,355 described here that you just take one liter and one liter and one liter and then you check it 348 00:35:47,355 --> 00:35:53,200 by smelling and tasting, if it's okay, or if it's not. And then the other way is, 349 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,520 for example, temperature control. So if you buy a modern still from an experienced 350 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:04,470 copper smith, this is made with any types of sensors and that are telling you the 351 00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:08,240 temperatures, the flow, the alcohol content. So you can basically program your 352 00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:14,400 still to automatically cut the foreshots and the aftershots. So this is another 353 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:19,620 way. Then you could, for example, distill once or twice, and with the first 354 00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:24,140 distillation, just take every alcohol that's coming out and then collect this 355 00:36:24,140 --> 00:36:29,380 first run, and then redistill it, and then make your cuts for the heads and the 356 00:36:29,380 --> 00:36:32,900 tails. And you can make it otherwise it can cut the head and tails in the first 357 00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:39,780 run, and then just basically concentrate in the redistillation. So there's many 358 00:36:39,780 --> 00:36:44,020 roads that lead to Rome and you're just gonna find out your way that suits you 359 00:36:44,020 --> 00:36:52,480 best. But if you start, I would take the fracturing, the fracturing method. Yes. 360 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,850 Mic1: What was your run, your still on? What technique did you use for your 361 00:36:56,850 --> 00:37:00,574 business, your still? 362 00:37:00,574 --> 00:37:04,880 S: You mean my still at home? The craft still that I get on the...? 363 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,385 Yeah, this is experience. 364 00:37:07,385 --> 00:37:09,875 So we know the first 1.5 liters is foreshots, 365 00:37:09,875 --> 00:37:14,577 so we collect those and then we redistill them again. But. Yeah. 366 00:37:14,577 --> 00:37:20,770 At some time my great-grandfather, most probably found out the way and he taught them 367 00:37:20,770 --> 00:37:26,414 his son and his son. And I know that I didn't need to get rid of 1.5l of foreshots. 368 00:37:26,414 --> 00:37:28,800 Mic1: Thank you. S: You are welcome. 369 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:33,138 H: Then at the end of this double feature, I expect a very big 370 00:37:33,138 --> 00:37:41,573 warm applause for Franziska, Andreas, and Stefan 371 00:37:41,573 --> 00:37:46,320 *Applause* 372 00:37:46,320 --> 00:38:11,000 subtitles created by c3subtitles.de in the year 2019. Join, and help us!