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If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/60 Thanks! 1 00:00:09,140 --> 00:00:11,539 Let's welcome and Richard, 2 00:00:11,540 --> 00:00:13,849 for our talk, policing the romantic 3 00:00:13,850 --> 00:00:15,949 crowd, please give them a warm round 4 00:00:15,950 --> 00:00:17,960 of applause to. 5 00:00:24,410 --> 00:00:27,079 Gelfond billion Crozet 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,149 aid, and I bet as anyone 7 00:00:29,150 --> 00:00:30,589 in the audience who just understood, I 8 00:00:30,590 --> 00:00:32,719 said that was a 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,939 warm welcome to you and Welch and 10 00:00:34,940 --> 00:00:36,769 it's really great to hear so many 11 00:00:36,770 --> 00:00:39,229 different languages here on the thirty 12 00:00:39,230 --> 00:00:40,230 three. 13 00:00:41,300 --> 00:00:43,369 Now that's where we are 14 00:00:43,370 --> 00:00:44,370 in Aberystwyth, 15 00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:47,599 that's 20 kilometers north of the 16 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,879 only place in Europe where 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,069 civilian and military drones can 18 00:00:52,070 --> 00:00:54,889 be tested in civilian airspace. 19 00:00:54,890 --> 00:00:57,139 And that's crucial for future 20 00:00:57,140 --> 00:00:59,389 policing techniques with drones and high 21 00:00:59,390 --> 00:01:02,329 density environments 22 00:01:02,330 --> 00:01:05,268 where also 50 kilometers north 23 00:01:05,269 --> 00:01:07,639 of the town where Manning went to school 24 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:08,829 when he was a teenager. 25 00:01:09,890 --> 00:01:12,979 So we are at the periphery of Europe, 26 00:01:12,980 --> 00:01:15,679 but also at the heart of 27 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,140 some of its major debates. 28 00:01:18,260 --> 00:01:20,449 So that's a perfect example then 29 00:01:20,450 --> 00:01:22,429 I would say for the losers in quarterly's 30 00:01:22,430 --> 00:01:25,369 theory of the rhizome of nonhierarchical 31 00:01:25,370 --> 00:01:27,200 entry points into culture. 32 00:01:28,370 --> 00:01:30,229 And actually in our talk, we're going to 33 00:01:30,230 --> 00:01:31,879 bring some of these entry points 34 00:01:33,050 --> 00:01:34,569 into creative opposition. 35 00:01:35,870 --> 00:01:37,999 So since first we drafted this 36 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,519 paper in both Germany 37 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,859 and the UK, we have seen major example 38 00:01:42,860 --> 00:01:43,999 of crowd activism 39 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,569 here in Hamburg last weekend 40 00:01:47,570 --> 00:01:49,400 and earlier this month in London, 41 00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:52,459 where amazingly, all three elements of 42 00:01:52,460 --> 00:01:55,039 our talk policing, the romantic crowd 43 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,619 came together spectacularly. 44 00:01:57,620 --> 00:01:59,929 This was the scene in London 45 00:01:59,930 --> 00:02:02,239 where thousands of students 46 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,399 were protesting against police presence 47 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,349 on university campuses. 48 00:02:06,350 --> 00:02:08,689 And Richard was especially pleased 49 00:02:08,690 --> 00:02:10,609 to see a romantic book. 50 00:02:10,610 --> 00:02:12,679 Mary Wollstonecraft A 51 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,009 Vindication of the Rights of Women 1792, 52 00:02:16,010 --> 00:02:18,169 among the bookshelves carried by book 53 00:02:18,170 --> 00:02:20,299 block, not black block. 54 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:22,489 But look, OK, 55 00:02:22,490 --> 00:02:24,859 so this reminds us that's 56 00:02:24,860 --> 00:02:26,989 a powerful rhetorical tradition of 57 00:02:26,990 --> 00:02:29,989 civil liberties and gender equality 58 00:02:29,990 --> 00:02:32,179 has its roots in the romantic art 59 00:02:32,180 --> 00:02:33,829 and poetry. 60 00:02:33,830 --> 00:02:36,199 Yeah, but a point isn't that Romanticism 61 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,419 has already had all the insights into 62 00:02:38,420 --> 00:02:40,609 surveillance culture, the culture 63 00:02:40,610 --> 00:02:41,929 of the news. 64 00:02:41,930 --> 00:02:43,759 That said, it does appear that the 65 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,770 romantic saw the Internet coming. 66 00:02:51,530 --> 00:02:53,839 OK, maybe not the Internet, but certainly 67 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,119 peer networks of communication based 68 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:57,259 on trust. 69 00:02:57,260 --> 00:02:58,999 Now we have to be careful about 70 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,639 distinguishing between mere analogies 71 00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:03,799 linking the romantic period to our 72 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,019 own age that maybe don't have any useful 73 00:03:06,020 --> 00:03:08,119 analogs and those that 74 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,459 do have some continued operational 75 00:03:10,460 --> 00:03:12,949 relevance, because it is the case 76 00:03:12,950 --> 00:03:15,379 that writers, romantic writers 77 00:03:15,380 --> 00:03:17,509 like John Keats, Mary Shelley, 78 00:03:17,510 --> 00:03:19,939 William Wordsworth, philosophically 79 00:03:19,940 --> 00:03:22,249 modeled and to some extent 80 00:03:22,250 --> 00:03:24,559 thought through many of the 81 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,329 debates and issues that we're currently 82 00:03:26,330 --> 00:03:28,599 having as we seek to shape 83 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,769 the contours of our 84 00:03:30,770 --> 00:03:32,169 future societies. 85 00:03:33,290 --> 00:03:35,359 Now, these writers lived in the age 86 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,629 that first imagined total surveillance. 87 00:03:38,630 --> 00:03:40,549 This is the age of Jeremy Bentham 88 00:03:40,550 --> 00:03:43,459 Panopticon published in 1791. 89 00:03:43,460 --> 00:03:46,339 So at the very least, it's valuable 90 00:03:46,340 --> 00:03:48,679 to remind ourselves where 91 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,809 some of the some of our ideas 92 00:03:50,810 --> 00:03:52,879 about surveillance, privacy and 93 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,189 crowds and particularly the policing 94 00:03:55,190 --> 00:03:57,739 of rhetorical and discursive space 95 00:03:57,740 --> 00:03:59,329 have come from. 96 00:03:59,330 --> 00:04:00,799 So we're going to go on a journey into 97 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,449 the romantic crowd. 98 00:04:02,450 --> 00:04:04,549 What in romantic slang was called 99 00:04:04,550 --> 00:04:06,889 the push, a bit like the coffee 100 00:04:06,890 --> 00:04:09,229 Schlanger outside aims 101 00:04:09,230 --> 00:04:11,449 and along the way will be meeting 102 00:04:11,450 --> 00:04:13,849 romantic poet John Keats, 103 00:04:13,850 --> 00:04:16,220 a couple of Dundee's writing Velocipedes, 104 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,088 a certain Victor Frankenstein 105 00:04:20,089 --> 00:04:22,309 and two crowds that managed to be in 106 00:04:22,310 --> 00:04:23,689 the same place at once. 107 00:04:25,750 --> 00:04:28,159 OK, so spring 18, 108 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,289 19 and German cutting 109 00:04:30,290 --> 00:04:32,449 edge technology arrives in Britain in 110 00:04:32,450 --> 00:04:34,829 the form of Karl Tracy's love machina. 111 00:04:34,830 --> 00:04:36,889 And these velocipedes 112 00:04:36,890 --> 00:04:39,109 were popular among 113 00:04:39,110 --> 00:04:40,999 the romantic geeks of the day. 114 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,069 Well dressed Dandy's like these 115 00:04:43,070 --> 00:04:45,169 two, very eager to try out 116 00:04:45,170 --> 00:04:47,419 new gadgets, although the rudimentary 117 00:04:47,420 --> 00:04:49,669 steering mechanism sent many of them into 118 00:04:49,670 --> 00:04:52,069 hedges or tumbling into 119 00:04:52,070 --> 00:04:53,749 duck ponds. 120 00:04:53,750 --> 00:04:56,239 John Keats, in a letter from March 121 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,579 1890, dismissed 122 00:04:58,580 --> 00:05:00,259 this new technology. 123 00:05:00,260 --> 00:05:02,629 The Nothing of the day, he said, 124 00:05:02,630 --> 00:05:04,549 is a machine called the Velocipede. 125 00:05:04,550 --> 00:05:06,869 It is a real courage to ride 126 00:05:06,870 --> 00:05:08,509 cock horse upon. 127 00:05:08,510 --> 00:05:10,939 They will go seven miles an hour. 128 00:05:10,940 --> 00:05:13,219 A handsome gelding will come to eight 129 00:05:13,220 --> 00:05:15,379 guineas. However, they will soon 130 00:05:15,380 --> 00:05:17,449 be cheaper unless the army 131 00:05:17,450 --> 00:05:18,450 takes to them. 132 00:05:19,130 --> 00:05:21,529 So Keats is ridiculing the Raices 133 00:05:21,530 --> 00:05:24,059 invention of. The nothing of the date 134 00:05:24,060 --> 00:05:25,439 but that word nothing 135 00:05:26,490 --> 00:05:28,919 disguises an anxiety attack, 136 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,829 no ethical anxiety, anticipating 137 00:05:31,830 --> 00:05:34,289 that the army would take to them 138 00:05:34,290 --> 00:05:36,359 streets, who is part of a circle 139 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,609 of anti-government activists, is 140 00:05:38,610 --> 00:05:40,889 worried about potential military 141 00:05:40,890 --> 00:05:41,890 applications. 142 00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:45,089 Well, not quite like this design 143 00:05:45,090 --> 00:05:46,090 of the first police 144 00:05:47,370 --> 00:05:49,679 motorbike from 1818 145 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,139 and certainly not like this. 146 00:05:52,140 --> 00:05:54,299 This is megacity want take on 147 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:56,399 the velocipede, but nonetheless the 148 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,769 potential revolution in policing 149 00:05:58,770 --> 00:06:00,029 techniques. 150 00:06:00,030 --> 00:06:02,279 Now, Keets wasn't the only one 151 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:05,099 to worry about the army taking to them. 152 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:08,009 On September the 1st, 1819, 153 00:06:08,010 --> 00:06:10,229 a popular magazine called The Tickler 154 00:06:10,230 --> 00:06:11,459 had great names. Back then, 155 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,909 it conjured up a vision of an entire 156 00:06:14,910 --> 00:06:17,159 Corps of Velocipedes or 157 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:18,420 Dondi Dragoons. 158 00:06:19,810 --> 00:06:22,079 And here they are riding cannons. 159 00:06:23,460 --> 00:06:25,409 So apologies to this dream about the 160 00:06:25,410 --> 00:06:26,819 readability. 161 00:06:26,820 --> 00:06:29,309 So such cause might be 162 00:06:29,310 --> 00:06:31,469 very useful for home of service, 163 00:06:31,470 --> 00:06:33,749 particularly on the occasion of public 164 00:06:33,750 --> 00:06:34,750 spectacles. 165 00:06:36,060 --> 00:06:38,399 What the ticklers talking about here 166 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,529 is policing demonstrations. 167 00:06:40,530 --> 00:06:42,869 But that date, first of September 168 00:06:42,870 --> 00:06:45,689 18 19 is actually significant. 169 00:06:45,690 --> 00:06:48,059 It was just two weeks after mounted 170 00:06:48,060 --> 00:06:50,759 police riding real horses 171 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,889 and armed with Saber's, 172 00:06:52,890 --> 00:06:55,559 had brutally dispersed 60000 protesters 173 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,989 and some computers field in Manchester. 174 00:06:57,990 --> 00:07:01,049 That was the infamous Peterloo massacre. 175 00:07:01,050 --> 00:07:03,329 15 people were slashed or trampled 176 00:07:03,330 --> 00:07:05,969 to death and hundreds wounded. 177 00:07:05,970 --> 00:07:08,189 And one eyewitness was so appalled, he 178 00:07:08,190 --> 00:07:10,409 founded a new liberal newspaper called 179 00:07:10,410 --> 00:07:12,089 The Manchester Guardian today, just the 180 00:07:12,090 --> 00:07:13,589 Guardian. 181 00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:15,059 But for all the humor, the Ticklers 182 00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:17,309 actually suggesting that 183 00:07:17,310 --> 00:07:19,170 the core of Dondi Dragoons 184 00:07:21,690 --> 00:07:24,059 police on velocipedes could control 185 00:07:24,060 --> 00:07:26,579 crowds without crushing people. 186 00:07:26,580 --> 00:07:28,649 And it adds by the same token, that if 187 00:07:28,650 --> 00:07:31,439 the head of a Dondi Charger was shot off, 188 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,899 the rider could simply quote Nalebuff 189 00:07:33,900 --> 00:07:34,900 on again. 190 00:07:36,060 --> 00:07:38,039 It's another absurd image, but it pulls 191 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:39,539 the velocipede into the frame of a 192 00:07:39,540 --> 00:07:41,459 technological ethical debate about the 193 00:07:41,460 --> 00:07:44,219 policing of public space. 194 00:07:44,220 --> 00:07:47,069 Now, in 1819, the velocipede 195 00:07:47,070 --> 00:07:49,709 cheap, lightweight and fast 196 00:07:49,710 --> 00:07:51,149 looked like becoming part of the 197 00:07:51,150 --> 00:07:53,729 technology of domestic crowd control 198 00:07:53,730 --> 00:07:56,879 and post Napoleonic expansion, 199 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,039 as the Gentleman magazine 200 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,229 predicted. Echoing Keets, 201 00:08:01,230 --> 00:08:03,719 The Velocipede is one of those machines 202 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,029 which may probably alter the whole system 203 00:08:06,030 --> 00:08:08,969 of society because it is applicable 204 00:08:08,970 --> 00:08:10,740 to the movement of armies. 205 00:08:12,030 --> 00:08:14,339 As it turned out, the velocipedes 206 00:08:14,340 --> 00:08:16,469 didn't catch on, not 207 00:08:16,470 --> 00:08:18,540 for another 40 years until 208 00:08:19,830 --> 00:08:22,589 Pedal's were finally invented. 209 00:08:22,590 --> 00:08:25,019 The point, though, is that the Romantics 210 00:08:25,020 --> 00:08:27,569 were quick to model the impact 211 00:08:27,570 --> 00:08:29,939 ethically and on Britain's 212 00:08:29,940 --> 00:08:32,369 fraught political landscapes. 213 00:08:32,370 --> 00:08:34,529 So no one, of course, reads 214 00:08:34,530 --> 00:08:35,519 particular anymore. 215 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,649 But maybe they should because the 216 00:08:37,650 --> 00:08:39,719 magazine's whimsical take 217 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,509 on fashionable new machines in 1819 218 00:08:42,510 --> 00:08:44,729 actually hides an acute and 219 00:08:44,730 --> 00:08:47,039 sophisticated response to the Peterloo 220 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,109 massacre and of course, to 221 00:08:49,110 --> 00:08:51,269 all potential use misuses of 222 00:08:51,270 --> 00:08:52,349 technology. 223 00:08:52,350 --> 00:08:54,419 And it is radical in its own way, 224 00:08:54,420 --> 00:08:57,149 as Percy Shelley is better known. 225 00:08:57,150 --> 00:08:58,529 Response to Peterloo. 226 00:08:58,530 --> 00:09:00,749 The poem The Mask of Anarchy was 227 00:09:00,750 --> 00:09:01,950 and here's a stanza from it 228 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,159 and it celebrates the energies of the 229 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,709 crowd by suspiciously summoning 230 00:09:07,710 --> 00:09:09,929 another crowd into existence. 231 00:09:09,930 --> 00:09:11,849 Let a vast assembly B. 232 00:09:11,850 --> 00:09:14,009 And with great solemnity declare 233 00:09:14,010 --> 00:09:16,139 with measured words that you are 234 00:09:16,140 --> 00:09:18,629 as God has made you free. 235 00:09:18,630 --> 00:09:20,579 OK, so it's, it's not a piece of high 236 00:09:20,580 --> 00:09:21,929 abstraction. 237 00:09:21,930 --> 00:09:24,179 Actually it's a crowd pleaser made 238 00:09:24,180 --> 00:09:25,289 up of slogans. 239 00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:27,359 And Sheli even manages to anticipate 240 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,459 one of Occupy own slogans 241 00:09:29,460 --> 00:09:31,889 about the 99 percent year many 242 00:09:31,890 --> 00:09:33,509 and they are few. 243 00:09:33,510 --> 00:09:35,669 But let's not forget, this is rhetorical 244 00:09:35,670 --> 00:09:36,719 space. 245 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,299 And actually how large public meetings 246 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:41,699 in physical space were to be understood 247 00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:43,949 legally was crucial 248 00:09:43,950 --> 00:09:45,569 for the Manchester authorities. 249 00:09:45,570 --> 00:09:47,999 The Peterloo crowd represented 250 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,059 a single multiheaded monster, 251 00:09:51,060 --> 00:09:53,649 and that partly explains why the 252 00:09:53,650 --> 00:09:55,529 the mounted police were able to charge 253 00:09:55,530 --> 00:09:56,999 into the crowd and attack them 254 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,329 indiscriminately. 255 00:09:58,330 --> 00:10:00,629 If you were there, you were guilty. 256 00:10:00,630 --> 00:10:02,759 And it's the same logic behind today's 257 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:03,899 kettling techniques. 258 00:10:03,900 --> 00:10:06,029 And we saw that last weekend here 259 00:10:06,030 --> 00:10:07,349 in Hamburg. 260 00:10:07,350 --> 00:10:09,959 Incidentally, the official position 261 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,239 on the breaking up of the Court of Horror 262 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,489 demo, as you can see here, 263 00:10:14,490 --> 00:10:16,709 was that quoting the official 264 00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:18,869 police spokesman, the protesters suddenly 265 00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:20,159 started marching. 266 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,649 And this was not what we agreed with. 267 00:10:22,650 --> 00:10:25,019 So we have to stop the march and the very 268 00:10:25,020 --> 00:10:27,179 same reason was given for breaking 269 00:10:27,180 --> 00:10:30,149 up the Peterloo meeting in 1819, 270 00:10:30,150 --> 00:10:32,819 as one government prosecutor explained 271 00:10:32,820 --> 00:10:34,589 at the trial of one of the organizers, 272 00:10:34,590 --> 00:10:36,209 Henry Hunt. 273 00:10:36,210 --> 00:10:37,919 The protesters were all provided with 274 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,019 banners and advanced with a firm military 275 00:10:40,020 --> 00:10:42,239 step, presenting every appearance 276 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,579 of troops upon their march. 277 00:10:44,580 --> 00:10:46,019 And ever since the French Revolution, 278 00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:48,779 actually. But fear of marching crowds 279 00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:49,979 has never really gone away. 280 00:10:49,980 --> 00:10:52,829 It's always there beneath the surface. 281 00:10:52,830 --> 00:10:55,199 Now, actually, romantic literature was 282 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,049 fascinated by the idea of crowds 283 00:10:58,050 --> 00:11:00,449 as potentially government toppling 284 00:11:00,450 --> 00:11:02,909 monsters, including the most famous 285 00:11:02,910 --> 00:11:05,009 romantic novel of all, one 286 00:11:05,010 --> 00:11:07,079 of the most famous novels, Mary 287 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,789 Shelley's Frankenstein. 288 00:11:08,790 --> 00:11:10,889 Now Frankenstein was published in 289 00:11:10,890 --> 00:11:13,169 1817, and that's two years 290 00:11:13,170 --> 00:11:14,339 before Peterloo. 291 00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:16,799 But these were already riotous 292 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,959 times, regularly punctuated 293 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,119 by enormous gatherings of 60 to 294 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,219 80000 people protesting against 295 00:11:23,220 --> 00:11:25,499 the high price of bread loss 296 00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:28,109 of jobs to machines and corrupt 297 00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:29,729 politicians. 298 00:11:29,730 --> 00:11:32,549 So as we all know, Victor Frankenstein 299 00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:34,979 is working at the limits 300 00:11:34,980 --> 00:11:37,079 or beyond the limits of romantic 301 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:38,279 techno ethics. 302 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,439 It creates a monstrous creature 303 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,119 and then when he sees what he's done, he 304 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,099 immediately disowns it. 305 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:46,799 And the novel was straightaway recognized 306 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,569 in its own day as an allegory, an 307 00:11:48,570 --> 00:11:50,729 allegory on techno ethics, 308 00:11:50,730 --> 00:11:53,309 on the dangers of new scientific 309 00:11:53,310 --> 00:11:55,379 techniques such as Galván 310 00:11:55,380 --> 00:11:56,399 ism. 311 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,979 But it was also recognized as an allegory 312 00:11:58,980 --> 00:12:01,979 on the political relationship between 313 00:12:01,980 --> 00:12:03,839 a dissatisfied and underrepresented 314 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,029 people and their uncaring 315 00:12:06,030 --> 00:12:07,889 rulers and the creatures. 316 00:12:07,890 --> 00:12:10,529 Complaint that he'd been betrayed by 317 00:12:10,530 --> 00:12:13,229 the father figure by Frankenstein 318 00:12:13,230 --> 00:12:14,849 is also the complaint of the 319 00:12:14,850 --> 00:12:17,099 underprivileged crowd protesting 320 00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:18,420 at their treatment by the state. 321 00:12:19,530 --> 00:12:21,119 But it doesn't end well for 322 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,129 Frankenstein's creature, right? 323 00:12:23,130 --> 00:12:25,589 And the first thing that radical lawyers 324 00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:27,839 after Peterloo did, and these 325 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,969 were not secret trials is 326 00:12:29,970 --> 00:12:32,519 Chelsea Manning was we've just heard 327 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:33,989 claims, but these were public show 328 00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:36,089 trials. The first thing they did was 329 00:12:36,090 --> 00:12:38,609 to build their client's defense cases 330 00:12:38,610 --> 00:12:40,769 around an agent base rather than 331 00:12:40,770 --> 00:12:43,019 a flow model of crowd 332 00:12:43,020 --> 00:12:43,949 dynamics. 333 00:12:43,950 --> 00:12:46,440 And as one romantic attorney insisted, 334 00:12:47,490 --> 00:12:49,709 a person's presence at a riot did not 335 00:12:49,710 --> 00:12:51,779 in itself prove riotous 336 00:12:51,780 --> 00:12:54,179 behavior. Quoting from the trial 337 00:12:54,180 --> 00:12:56,369 records, the third and last charge 338 00:12:56,370 --> 00:12:58,229 was seditious riot. 339 00:12:58,230 --> 00:13:00,059 What was riot? There was no such thing as 340 00:13:00,060 --> 00:13:01,949 riot. In the abstract. 341 00:13:01,950 --> 00:13:04,079 The individual must be found actually 342 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,189 rioting. 343 00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:07,319 Even if a multitude was rioters, a 344 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,869 man could not be made a riot, 345 00:13:09,870 --> 00:13:11,969 even if present, if he was found 346 00:13:11,970 --> 00:13:14,429 holding no participation in the tumult 347 00:13:14,430 --> 00:13:15,430 that prevailed. 348 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:19,289 Now such arguments on the day 349 00:13:19,290 --> 00:13:21,839 as can be seen in the current UK 350 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,789 Police Manual of guidance on public order 351 00:13:23,790 --> 00:13:24,790 policing. 352 00:13:25,710 --> 00:13:27,989 This is the theory anyway, and 353 00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:29,460 reading from the manual, 354 00:13:31,830 --> 00:13:34,019 as with any crowd, the protest crowd is 355 00:13:34,020 --> 00:13:36,329 not a homogenous mass, but a collection 356 00:13:36,330 --> 00:13:38,519 of groups and individuals who, while 357 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,309 sharing the same voluntary participation 358 00:13:41,310 --> 00:13:43,919 within the crowd, may wish to express 359 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,919 themselves in different ways. 360 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,649 So how one understood interaction 361 00:13:49,650 --> 00:13:51,929 within crowds in the romantic 362 00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:53,609 period was crucial. 363 00:13:53,610 --> 00:13:55,469 It could mean the difference between 364 00:13:55,470 --> 00:13:56,820 freedom and the scuffled 365 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,239 and the questions Romantic's asked 366 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,399 themselves about crowds are the same 367 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:03,809 as computer vision. 368 00:14:03,810 --> 00:14:05,129 Ask itself now 369 00:14:06,270 --> 00:14:08,489 questions about how crowds 370 00:14:08,490 --> 00:14:10,619 forms or how 371 00:14:10,620 --> 00:14:12,509 how information was transmitted across 372 00:14:12,510 --> 00:14:14,609 them, what behavior could 373 00:14:14,610 --> 00:14:16,799 be accurately predicted, 374 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,019 and where the crowds were collective 375 00:14:19,020 --> 00:14:21,590 entities or made up of individuals. 376 00:14:22,770 --> 00:14:25,109 The agent based modeling techniques, 377 00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:27,779 such as the social force model 378 00:14:27,780 --> 00:14:29,999 appear to have settled some of these. 379 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,949 They've transformed subdomains of 380 00:14:31,950 --> 00:14:34,589 surveillance, such as event detection 381 00:14:34,590 --> 00:14:36,299 and group tracking. 382 00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:37,919 And it turns out one of the keys to 383 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,049 accurately predicting and interpreting 384 00:14:40,050 --> 00:14:42,119 human interaction was in high 385 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,789 density environments is velocity. 386 00:14:46,270 --> 00:14:48,399 So if you look at these pictures, D to 387 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,469 f the decelerating 388 00:14:51,470 --> 00:14:53,589 subject, us, the one with a shortening 389 00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:55,719 blue arrow produces 390 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,939 attractive force as he approaches 391 00:14:57,940 --> 00:14:59,709 a stationary group. 392 00:14:59,710 --> 00:15:01,989 Deceleration indicates 393 00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:04,089 affiliation or in romantic 394 00:15:04,090 --> 00:15:06,489 terms, sympathy, 395 00:15:06,490 --> 00:15:08,919 because as Mary Fairclough has shown, 396 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,129 romantic activities, activists 397 00:15:12,130 --> 00:15:14,439 regard the movement of 398 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,599 information across crowds 399 00:15:17,650 --> 00:15:19,950 as an instinctive flow of sympathy. 400 00:15:21,580 --> 00:15:23,349 The authorities, on the other hand, saw 401 00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:25,899 this propagation of data as contagion. 402 00:15:27,260 --> 00:15:29,499 Modern visual analysis uses 403 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:31,659 the phrase attractive force 404 00:15:31,660 --> 00:15:33,579 to describe the relationship between 405 00:15:33,580 --> 00:15:36,219 people, which sounds neutral. 406 00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:38,379 However, those romantic terms sympathy or 407 00:15:38,380 --> 00:15:40,749 contagion, depending on your political 408 00:15:40,750 --> 00:15:42,729 outlook, are still there beneath the 409 00:15:42,730 --> 00:15:44,139 surface. 410 00:15:44,140 --> 00:15:46,299 As you slow down, you give up 411 00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:48,819 social information purpose, 412 00:15:48,820 --> 00:15:51,009 which the algorithm then passes either 413 00:15:51,010 --> 00:15:52,779 as normal or abnormal. 414 00:15:52,780 --> 00:15:55,419 But of course, such terms are 415 00:15:55,420 --> 00:15:56,829 ideologically freighted. 416 00:15:59,210 --> 00:16:00,210 For example, 417 00:16:01,370 --> 00:16:03,619 this is a data set here from 418 00:16:03,620 --> 00:16:05,989 left to right, show escape, panic, 419 00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:08,089 or could it depict beginnings 420 00:16:08,090 --> 00:16:09,159 of a flash mob? 421 00:16:10,940 --> 00:16:12,889 And how much interaction in crowds is 422 00:16:12,890 --> 00:16:13,890 normal anyway? 423 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,979 Clearly, spatial context 424 00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:23,469 is crucial, but even 425 00:16:23,470 --> 00:16:25,629 here, the researchers assumptions 426 00:16:25,630 --> 00:16:27,849 aren't neutral, and 427 00:16:27,850 --> 00:16:30,069 this quotation shows in a normal scene 428 00:16:30,070 --> 00:16:32,049 of a stock market, the interaction force 429 00:16:32,050 --> 00:16:34,809 of stock brokers would be quite higher 430 00:16:34,810 --> 00:16:36,849 than the interaction forces of walking 431 00:16:36,850 --> 00:16:39,399 pedestrians and the street scene. 432 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,709 Now, for most people, there's nothing 433 00:16:41,710 --> 00:16:43,809 normal about the scene of a stock 434 00:16:43,810 --> 00:16:44,810 market. 435 00:16:45,780 --> 00:16:46,780 But. 436 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,619 What's more, the binary 437 00:16:50,620 --> 00:16:53,080 regrouping of normal and abnormal 438 00:16:55,060 --> 00:16:57,129 and these must use data sets that are 439 00:16:57,130 --> 00:16:59,289 actually from Getty Images is 440 00:16:59,290 --> 00:17:01,539 very revealing in the category 441 00:17:01,540 --> 00:17:03,849 normal crowd scenes, we find pedestrian 442 00:17:03,850 --> 00:17:05,949 walking as any other kind of 443 00:17:05,950 --> 00:17:08,318 wonder and marathon 444 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:09,309 running. 445 00:17:09,310 --> 00:17:11,169 And on the abnormal, we find crowd 446 00:17:11,170 --> 00:17:13,029 funding and protesters clashing. 447 00:17:13,030 --> 00:17:15,639 But public protest isn't abnormal. 448 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,889 It's, of course, part of the democratic 449 00:17:17,890 --> 00:17:19,338 process. 450 00:17:19,339 --> 00:17:21,769 Now, today's SFM multi 451 00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:23,499 object tracking techniques don't only 452 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:25,539 predict where objects and groups moving 453 00:17:25,540 --> 00:17:28,299 groups moving through crowds 454 00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:29,439 are going to be, 455 00:17:30,670 --> 00:17:32,859 but they also predict where people 456 00:17:32,860 --> 00:17:34,509 have been. 457 00:17:34,510 --> 00:17:36,640 And this is potentially really scary. 458 00:17:37,900 --> 00:17:39,160 Quoting the paper 459 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,789 trajectory estimation explains 460 00:17:42,790 --> 00:17:44,469 the whole path as if it had always 461 00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:45,519 existed. 462 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,679 We can follow a trajectory back 463 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,779 in time to determine where a pedestrian 464 00:17:49,780 --> 00:17:52,209 came from when he first stepped 465 00:17:52,210 --> 00:17:53,210 in to view 466 00:17:54,430 --> 00:17:56,589 this brave, new, statistically 467 00:17:56,590 --> 00:17:58,069 plausible world. 468 00:17:58,070 --> 00:18:00,369 It's possible to exist in two parts 469 00:18:00,370 --> 00:18:01,370 simultaneously. 470 00:18:03,510 --> 00:18:06,029 One question immediately arises 471 00:18:06,030 --> 00:18:08,219 then, to what extent 472 00:18:08,220 --> 00:18:10,589 were surveilled subjects in the future 473 00:18:10,590 --> 00:18:12,749 be held accountable for their 474 00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:15,689 estimated past movements, 475 00:18:15,690 --> 00:18:17,609 and it turns out that the romantics 476 00:18:17,610 --> 00:18:20,379 worried about precisely this question. 477 00:18:20,380 --> 00:18:21,839 So to finish the last five minutes, we 478 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,059 want to show you a romantic data set 479 00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:26,129 of crowd interaction and one that 480 00:18:26,130 --> 00:18:28,769 powerfully explores the psychological 481 00:18:28,770 --> 00:18:31,139 impacts of projecting somebody backwards 482 00:18:31,140 --> 00:18:33,779 into into an estimated trajectory. 483 00:18:33,780 --> 00:18:36,149 And it's a good example of how romantic 484 00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:38,309 literature and art opens a space 485 00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:39,869 of shared imagination that's still 486 00:18:39,870 --> 00:18:42,119 available to us now. 487 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,429 So London, 13th of September, 488 00:18:44,430 --> 00:18:46,799 18, 19, four 489 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,049 weeks after Peterloo, two weeks after 490 00:18:49,050 --> 00:18:51,509 that particular article 491 00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:53,849 and one o'clock in the afternoon, 492 00:18:55,260 --> 00:18:56,939 two political processions are about to 493 00:18:56,940 --> 00:18:58,529 take place. 494 00:18:58,530 --> 00:19:00,879 The first is enormous. 495 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,939 It's up to 300000 people, 496 00:19:02,940 --> 00:19:05,129 possibly the largest romantic crowd 497 00:19:05,130 --> 00:19:06,130 ever. 498 00:19:06,660 --> 00:19:07,769 And they've gathered to cheer the 499 00:19:07,770 --> 00:19:10,019 activist Henri Hunt on his way back into 500 00:19:10,020 --> 00:19:11,909 London to stand trial for treason. 501 00:19:11,910 --> 00:19:14,399 For his part in organizing, Peterloo 502 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,289 and its supporters are calling it Hunt's 503 00:19:16,290 --> 00:19:19,019 triumphant entry into London. 504 00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:21,629 The second crowd is also enormous 505 00:19:21,630 --> 00:19:23,729 and it's filled with dark shadows 506 00:19:23,730 --> 00:19:25,139 and suspicions. 507 00:19:25,140 --> 00:19:27,299 And that crowd is accompanying Christ 508 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,369 into Jerusalem and for one 509 00:19:29,370 --> 00:19:31,469 man. Update our poet John 510 00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:33,779 Keats. Both processions are taking 511 00:19:33,780 --> 00:19:35,009 place at the same time. 512 00:19:36,420 --> 00:19:38,429 So it's the largest gathering in London 513 00:19:38,430 --> 00:19:40,499 ever. That date of then, 514 00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:42,569 the Keats hardly mentions it 515 00:19:42,570 --> 00:19:44,999 in his letter newsletter 516 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,439 writes With brother and sister law, you 517 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,149 will hear by the papers of the 518 00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:50,849 proceedings at Manchester Peterloo 519 00:19:50,850 --> 00:19:52,769 and Hunt's triumphal entry into London. 520 00:19:52,770 --> 00:19:54,839 I will merely mention that it 521 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,289 is calculated 30. 522 00:19:56,290 --> 00:19:58,109 He means 300000 people were in the 523 00:19:58,110 --> 00:20:00,209 street. As I passed Conaghan 524 00:20:00,210 --> 00:20:02,459 his window, I saw a profile 525 00:20:02,460 --> 00:20:03,389 portrait of Zandt's. 526 00:20:03,390 --> 00:20:05,669 The Destroyer of Kotzebue is very look 527 00:20:05,670 --> 00:20:07,460 Mussen interest everybody in his favor, 528 00:20:10,140 --> 00:20:11,429 that's all he says nothing about the 529 00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:12,689 banners or the flags. 530 00:20:12,690 --> 00:20:14,609 And actually he's more interested in this 531 00:20:14,610 --> 00:20:17,069 portrait of Zandt's 532 00:20:17,070 --> 00:20:19,589 and the other before. In 1818, Karsan 533 00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:21,959 had stabbed the distinguished 534 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,299 dramatist Kotzebue after accusing 535 00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:25,619 him of betraying the nation. 536 00:20:25,620 --> 00:20:27,869 So to crowds, one real one, a painting. 537 00:20:29,130 --> 00:20:31,319 And in that painting, Christ's triumphant 538 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,539 entry into Jerusalem, we 539 00:20:33,540 --> 00:20:35,819 find Keats's face 540 00:20:35,820 --> 00:20:38,129 painted by his one time friend, Benjamin 541 00:20:38,130 --> 00:20:39,130 Robert Hayden. 542 00:20:39,810 --> 00:20:41,369 Now, the painting hasn't been exhibited 543 00:20:41,370 --> 00:20:43,379 at the time Hunt's procession takes 544 00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:45,449 place, but Keats is very 545 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:46,409 familiar with the painting. 546 00:20:46,410 --> 00:20:48,689 He's seen it propped up in 547 00:20:48,690 --> 00:20:50,729 Hayden's dining room, where it's been the 548 00:20:50,730 --> 00:20:53,099 backdrop to many radical dinners 549 00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:55,109 absorbing some of those radical energies 550 00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:56,939 and perhaps some of the atmosphere of 551 00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:58,109 suspicion. 552 00:20:58,110 --> 00:21:00,689 By August 1819, Hayden's 553 00:21:00,690 --> 00:21:03,989 relationship with Keats has disintegrated 554 00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:06,389 for the Peter Keats is an opportunist 555 00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:08,939 who's only using the activist networks 556 00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:11,339 as a way to get his work out in 557 00:21:11,340 --> 00:21:13,229 the radical press. 558 00:21:13,230 --> 00:21:14,999 Perhaps you've already noticed that Keats 559 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,279 is the only person speaking 560 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,469 in the crowd. There he is alongside other 561 00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:21,449 famous faces Voltaire, Newton, 562 00:21:21,450 --> 00:21:23,699 Wordsworth. Keats is angry. 563 00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:25,889 He's the only one talking because 564 00:21:25,890 --> 00:21:28,499 he's found himself cast by Hayden, 565 00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:30,359 has fallen out with him by now in the 566 00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,549 role of the infiltrator, 567 00:21:32,550 --> 00:21:34,319 the whisperer, the betrayer, the agent 568 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,659 provocateur, in short, within 569 00:21:36,660 --> 00:21:38,579 the allegory of the painting as Judas 570 00:21:38,580 --> 00:21:39,580 himself. 571 00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:42,869 So as Kate stands around the London 572 00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:45,029 crowds, looking at Hunt supporters and 573 00:21:45,030 --> 00:21:47,129 seeing Christ's, he must have felt 574 00:21:47,130 --> 00:21:48,130 uncomfortable. 575 00:21:48,930 --> 00:21:50,909 Hayden's painting itself becomes a 576 00:21:50,910 --> 00:21:53,009 parable, a parable of the reform 577 00:21:53,010 --> 00:21:55,739 movement, closing in on itself 578 00:21:55,740 --> 00:21:57,719 of political friendship, straining under 579 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,519 the pressures of surveillance and of what 580 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,199 happens when social confidence breaks 581 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,200 down. 582 00:22:02,670 --> 00:22:04,769 So when Keats tells us in the letter that 583 00:22:04,770 --> 00:22:07,409 he doesn't feel part of the crowds, 584 00:22:07,410 --> 00:22:09,029 it's because he's standing in to crowds 585 00:22:09,030 --> 00:22:09,929 at once. 586 00:22:09,930 --> 00:22:12,299 Like many of us today, he's a quantum 587 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:14,669 Keats, a Keats who disturbs our sense 588 00:22:14,670 --> 00:22:16,889 of historical narrative, a 589 00:22:16,890 --> 00:22:19,559 double exposure, a double agent 590 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,779 that face in the print shop window 591 00:22:21,780 --> 00:22:24,449 of Zant and his victim, Kotzebue, 592 00:22:24,450 --> 00:22:26,339 must have brought home to Keats and 593 00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:29,459 mediated the still fraught dyadic 594 00:22:29,460 --> 00:22:31,589 identities of friend and 595 00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:33,839 betrayal activists and 596 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:34,919 spy. 597 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,749 Finally, then, in many ways, that 598 00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:38,579 painting of Haydon's is one of 599 00:22:38,580 --> 00:22:40,859 romanticism, the most profound and 600 00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:42,959 moving reflections on the 601 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,119 personal and interpersonal 602 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,609 damage caused by surveillance culture. 603 00:22:47,610 --> 00:22:48,749 We'll leave it there. Thanks for 604 00:22:48,750 --> 00:22:49,750 listening. 605 00:23:00,180 --> 00:23:02,069 Oh, thank you very much. 606 00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:04,309 Do we have questions from the Internet? 607 00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:06,419 You know, if you 608 00:23:06,420 --> 00:23:08,519 have questions in this room, could 609 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,919 you please walk up to the microphones 610 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:11,940 in the room here 611 00:23:13,290 --> 00:23:15,809 to so we can record 612 00:23:15,810 --> 00:23:18,029 your questions and answers 613 00:23:18,030 --> 00:23:19,030 be. 614 00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:24,889 Yes, please go ahead. 615 00:23:24,890 --> 00:23:26,630 Hello. A question just 616 00:23:28,550 --> 00:23:30,649 about my knowledge of 617 00:23:30,650 --> 00:23:32,089 the romantic movement is not really 618 00:23:33,290 --> 00:23:35,389 extensive, but I do associated also 619 00:23:35,390 --> 00:23:37,399 with a fear of technology and not 620 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,959 necessarily with crowds, but with 621 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,339 individuality. 622 00:23:40,340 --> 00:23:42,349 And I wonder if you could just elaborate 623 00:23:42,350 --> 00:23:43,350 a little bit about 624 00:23:44,540 --> 00:23:45,769 the notion of Frankenstein, which is 625 00:23:45,770 --> 00:23:46,999 often read as a sort of, 626 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,659 well, a call to engage responsibly 627 00:23:50,660 --> 00:23:52,729 with with technology and 628 00:23:52,730 --> 00:23:55,369 also with a broader sense of romantic 629 00:23:55,370 --> 00:23:57,059 distrust of crowds. 630 00:23:57,060 --> 00:23:58,669 Right. Where it's precisely the big 631 00:23:58,670 --> 00:23:59,989 groups of people in which you lose your 632 00:23:59,990 --> 00:24:01,369 individuality. 633 00:24:01,370 --> 00:24:03,889 And as a result, you get this traditional 634 00:24:03,890 --> 00:24:06,049 romantic heroes alone 635 00:24:06,050 --> 00:24:08,179 in nature without an iPod. 636 00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:09,180 You know, 637 00:24:10,410 --> 00:24:11,889 it's a fantastic question. 638 00:24:11,890 --> 00:24:13,369 And and you're absolutely right. 639 00:24:13,370 --> 00:24:15,649 Absolutely right. I mean, in a sense, the 640 00:24:15,650 --> 00:24:17,839 Orthodox until recently, the orthodox 641 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,059 view of romanticism is that it is 642 00:24:20,060 --> 00:24:22,399 a period of the emergence 643 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,739 of the individual genius, like the great 644 00:24:24,740 --> 00:24:27,559 romantic, solitary genius 645 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,139 who he usually a man 646 00:24:30,140 --> 00:24:32,329 is really just a conduit or a hollow bone 647 00:24:32,330 --> 00:24:33,979 for inspiration to travel down onto the 648 00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:34,939 page. 649 00:24:34,940 --> 00:24:37,219 And the romantic hero 650 00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:38,449 emerges with a fragment. 651 00:24:38,450 --> 00:24:40,669 All he can grasp from is a great 652 00:24:40,670 --> 00:24:42,169 infinite. 653 00:24:42,170 --> 00:24:43,699 I say that's the Orthodox, actually, 654 00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:44,669 that's been challenged. 655 00:24:44,670 --> 00:24:46,789 And we now have a much more nuanced sense 656 00:24:46,790 --> 00:24:49,399 of romanticism as a period of coterie 657 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,919 of circles of writers gathering together. 658 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,299 So, you know, the idea that Keats, for 659 00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:55,399 example, is a poet of autumn 660 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,469 who so floats over the Earth having 661 00:24:57,470 --> 00:24:59,779 cut himself free, a transcendental 662 00:24:59,780 --> 00:25:01,699 figure who writes about, you know, the 663 00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:03,439 great eternal themes of beauty and truth 664 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,689 and music. In actual fact, he's friends 665 00:25:05,690 --> 00:25:07,489 with a manly hunter who served two years 666 00:25:07,490 --> 00:25:09,769 in prison for insulting the prince regent 667 00:25:09,770 --> 00:25:11,200 called him a fat Adonis of 50. 668 00:25:12,260 --> 00:25:14,509 Fortunately, he survived prison, 669 00:25:14,510 --> 00:25:15,979 but that's what the state did to him. 670 00:25:15,980 --> 00:25:18,499 Keats wrote a sonnet celebrating 671 00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:20,629 his release from prison, and the first 672 00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:21,649 thing he did was try to get an 673 00:25:21,650 --> 00:25:23,629 introduction. And part of the agan 674 00:25:23,630 --> 00:25:26,059 between Hayden and Keats is that Hayden 675 00:25:26,060 --> 00:25:28,429 was really the conduit into 676 00:25:28,430 --> 00:25:30,889 this radical circle of poets. 677 00:25:30,890 --> 00:25:33,049 Keats very quickly left Hayden to one 678 00:25:33,050 --> 00:25:35,329 side and sided with Lee Hunt 679 00:25:35,330 --> 00:25:37,699 because he hadn't had at a newspaper 680 00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:38,869 published Keats. 681 00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:41,269 So it is a period of coteries. 682 00:25:41,270 --> 00:25:42,889 But the whole thing about the crime, it's 683 00:25:42,890 --> 00:25:44,989 also a time when the crowd is 684 00:25:44,990 --> 00:25:47,119 gathering to itself, you 685 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:49,369 know, a sort of a 686 00:25:49,370 --> 00:25:50,809 sense of agency. 687 00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:52,609 You know, after all, it was a crowd that 688 00:25:52,610 --> 00:25:54,289 sort of wreaks havoc through France. 689 00:25:54,290 --> 00:25:55,849 It's what the British authorities are 690 00:25:55,850 --> 00:25:57,649 frightened of. And that's why as soon as 691 00:25:57,650 --> 00:25:59,869 they have hints of the Peterloo crowd 692 00:25:59,870 --> 00:26:02,239 is drilling as a military force, 693 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,649 they're very scared and they send in the 694 00:26:03,650 --> 00:26:05,869 police and they disperse a bit. 695 00:26:05,870 --> 00:26:07,249 But it's a great question. 696 00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:09,709 Yeah, maybe a little bit of an anecdote. 697 00:26:09,710 --> 00:26:12,559 First, actually, 698 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,349 the murder of Kotzebue 699 00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:17,539 was followed by I don't know the exact 700 00:26:17,540 --> 00:26:19,299 language, but it's the but I was 701 00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:23,539 in Germany 702 00:26:23,540 --> 00:26:25,669 and it really, really oppressed 703 00:26:25,670 --> 00:26:27,439 the civilization and was followed by the 704 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,689 beat of my own thing 705 00:26:29,690 --> 00:26:31,909 and so on. But what I wanted to ask 706 00:26:31,910 --> 00:26:34,009 is, was there in 707 00:26:34,010 --> 00:26:36,439 Great Britain any thing similar 708 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,389 to that? Was there any oppression by the 709 00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:40,849 politics, especially after the massacre? 710 00:26:42,020 --> 00:26:43,409 Fantastic. Yeah. 711 00:26:43,410 --> 00:26:44,519 Yes. Is the answer to that. 712 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,849 One of the six acts immediately follows 713 00:26:46,850 --> 00:26:49,039 Peterloo and the Six Act 714 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,499 essentially criminalizes 715 00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:54,739 people gathering in assemblies. 716 00:26:54,740 --> 00:26:56,749 It's already a period where habeas corpus 717 00:26:56,750 --> 00:26:58,939 is a sort of 718 00:26:58,940 --> 00:26:59,839 vindicate Zachares. 719 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,829 You would say it's been lifted in the 720 00:27:01,830 --> 00:27:05,299 1796 lifted again in 1870. 721 00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:06,499 It's a very repressive period. 722 00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:08,959 It's a period of wide infiltration 723 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,509 of coteries and crowds by spies, 724 00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:13,189 infiltrators. 725 00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:15,229 A lot of romantic literature meditates on 726 00:27:15,230 --> 00:27:17,269 this, often in oblique ways, because to 727 00:27:17,270 --> 00:27:18,769 say it openly was dangerous. 728 00:27:18,770 --> 00:27:21,319 You ended up in prison, likely HUNTE 729 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,269 So yeah, it is an oppressive period. 730 00:27:23,270 --> 00:27:24,859 And the first thing the state does is a 731 00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:27,139 series of repressive legal 732 00:27:27,140 --> 00:27:29,779 measures aimed at preventing 733 00:27:29,780 --> 00:27:31,549 anything like Peterloo happening again, 734 00:27:31,550 --> 00:27:33,710 not the violence, but the crowd activism 735 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:35,539 could have been. 736 00:27:35,540 --> 00:27:37,129 We had the question from the other side 737 00:27:37,130 --> 00:27:38,760 of the room, but the lady. 738 00:27:40,430 --> 00:27:42,199 A couple of questions. 739 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,269 Let's start with the first one. 740 00:27:44,270 --> 00:27:46,369 My question, it's more like 741 00:27:46,370 --> 00:27:48,559 asking to elaborate on the part 742 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,269 about the soft policing because I don't 743 00:27:50,270 --> 00:27:51,709 think there's much more being talked 744 00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:52,669 about that here. 745 00:27:52,670 --> 00:27:53,809 And I think it's really good to bring 746 00:27:53,810 --> 00:27:55,399 that up because I think that's a really, 747 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,319 really dangerous current that has been 748 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:58,909 going on for a long time, as you said. 749 00:27:58,910 --> 00:28:00,709 But developments now like just questions 750 00:28:00,710 --> 00:28:03,649 of how what we can do to 751 00:28:03,650 --> 00:28:05,689 avoid this kind of detection, this kind 752 00:28:05,690 --> 00:28:07,819 of analysis and where there's 753 00:28:07,820 --> 00:28:08,820 more information on this. 754 00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:11,479 You have strong views about CCTV in 755 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,489 Britain, for example. 756 00:28:13,490 --> 00:28:15,199 Yeah, we have. 757 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,809 Well, Britain is the country where 758 00:28:17,810 --> 00:28:20,119 well, in the world with 759 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:22,679 the most. 760 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,839 CCTV cameras and private 761 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,939 CCTV cameras all 762 00:28:26,940 --> 00:28:29,549 over the world per head, really, 763 00:28:29,550 --> 00:28:32,099 and the drones 764 00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:34,199 where we had just 20 kilometers 765 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,629 up from and 766 00:28:36,630 --> 00:28:37,630 basically 767 00:28:39,180 --> 00:28:41,579 just trying to find out new techniques 768 00:28:41,580 --> 00:28:44,159 where they can go into crowds, 769 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,160 go into 770 00:28:46,590 --> 00:28:48,839 follow individuals, follow follow groups 771 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,119 of crowds. They have this visual 772 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,369 analysis technique where 773 00:28:53,370 --> 00:28:55,470 they were able to 774 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,480 to pass. 775 00:28:59,510 --> 00:29:02,329 One group into merging with others 776 00:29:02,330 --> 00:29:04,429 and then dispersing again, and 777 00:29:04,430 --> 00:29:06,589 especially in crowdsourced systems, 778 00:29:06,590 --> 00:29:08,869 like awkward situations like like 779 00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:10,999 demonstrations, protests, this 780 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,549 will be very useful for the police. 781 00:29:13,550 --> 00:29:16,579 And that's all been tested just 782 00:29:16,580 --> 00:29:18,649 below where we are on 783 00:29:18,650 --> 00:29:19,999 the first the first police drone that we 784 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,499 use to monitor crime. 785 00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:23,839 And and actually, 786 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,459 you know, the first the velocipedes often 787 00:29:25,460 --> 00:29:27,769 went into duck ponds, according 788 00:29:27,770 --> 00:29:29,539 to a cartoon by the first police drone 789 00:29:29,540 --> 00:29:30,949 used for that ended up in the River 790 00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:31,950 Mersey. 791 00:29:32,900 --> 00:29:33,949 But, you know, in terms of what you can 792 00:29:33,950 --> 00:29:36,259 do about it, it 793 00:29:36,260 --> 00:29:38,039 cracks us up because it is the argument. 794 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,649 Well, you know, as soon as you start 795 00:29:39,650 --> 00:29:41,239 talking about killer robots, people say, 796 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:42,979 well, yes, but drones do very useful 797 00:29:42,980 --> 00:29:45,199 things. And they do Aberystwyth 798 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,719 University, where drones 799 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,369 are used to measure nitrogen levels in 800 00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:51,529 fields they used to count 801 00:29:51,530 --> 00:29:53,659 sheep transferable skill 802 00:29:53,660 --> 00:29:56,059 set where, you know, lots of things. 803 00:29:56,060 --> 00:29:57,559 But it doesn't mean because we have that 804 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:58,669 we have to have killer robots. 805 00:29:58,670 --> 00:30:00,109 And actually the debate is getting going 806 00:30:00,110 --> 00:30:02,329 is getting going in Britain 807 00:30:02,330 --> 00:30:04,639 CCTV. I think we've become a culture into 808 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:05,689 it. It's normalized for us. 809 00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:07,759 People don't see him and actually 810 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,559 they actually advocate for them. 811 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:10,829 People want them. 812 00:30:10,830 --> 00:30:12,409 So streets will say, you know, why 813 00:30:12,410 --> 00:30:14,509 haven't we got a CCTV camera protecting 814 00:30:14,510 --> 00:30:16,130 that wall at the end of our street 815 00:30:17,390 --> 00:30:18,679 council? Very happy to provide them 816 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:19,729 usually. Yes. 817 00:30:19,730 --> 00:30:20,730 It seems like 818 00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:25,039 it's getting people to believe 819 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,899 that it's is good for them and 820 00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:28,819 reinforcing that, encouraging them to 821 00:30:28,820 --> 00:30:30,529 believe that they're there for our 822 00:30:30,530 --> 00:30:32,719 safety. You'll always find those 823 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:33,949 shields, you know. 824 00:30:33,950 --> 00:30:35,599 Yeah, but then again, I mean, we're both 825 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,859 educators working 826 00:30:37,860 --> 00:30:39,319 in different institutions. 827 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,569 And I think our role 828 00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:44,179 is being 829 00:30:44,180 --> 00:30:46,969 being multipliers and also educating 830 00:30:46,970 --> 00:30:49,519 anybody that that comes across exactly 831 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,859 what's giving them opposite views. 832 00:30:51,860 --> 00:30:53,899 I teach them in the universities to 833 00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:56,119 assist them in the further 834 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,529 education college. So there's still a 835 00:30:57,530 --> 00:30:59,719 little bit more brains are a bit more 836 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,059 malleable. So I think 837 00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:03,249 it's tough to do that. 838 00:31:03,250 --> 00:31:05,329 OK, how much 839 00:31:05,330 --> 00:31:08,419 of the problem with 840 00:31:08,420 --> 00:31:10,459 policing in overpolicing enrollment 841 00:31:10,460 --> 00:31:12,559 period was due to the fact that the 842 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,659 state simply didn't have the 843 00:31:14,660 --> 00:31:15,629 right toolbox? 844 00:31:15,630 --> 00:31:17,599 I mean, it's important to remember that 845 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,489 the people who were sabering down 846 00:31:19,490 --> 00:31:22,399 innocent women and children in Peterloo, 847 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,399 they weren't police, they were the army. 848 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,559 Chelsea Barracks existed to 849 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,539 police London because there wasn't a 850 00:31:29,540 --> 00:31:30,679 police force. 851 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,809 Yeah, it's an important distinction. 852 00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:35,479 They weren't police, they were the 853 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,339 yeomanry. It was a it was a paramilitary 854 00:31:37,340 --> 00:31:38,509 force, a militia really. 855 00:31:38,510 --> 00:31:40,609 And they're poised awkwardly between 856 00:31:40,610 --> 00:31:42,889 a regular police force and, and 857 00:31:42,890 --> 00:31:45,139 the army a true so it paramilitary, 858 00:31:45,140 --> 00:31:47,129 but they were used as a police force in 859 00:31:47,130 --> 00:31:49,039 different places. I mean, the other thing 860 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:50,899 I'd find quite interesting is that you're 861 00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:53,899 sort of focusing on urban policing. 862 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:56,719 How much does this work with 863 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,909 more rural policing and what 864 00:31:58,910 --> 00:32:01,099 comes to mind instantly with Wales? 865 00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:03,319 This is the Rebecca riots against toll 866 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,630 booth, toll bridges and toll roads. 867 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,629 Yeah, well, you know, we have we have a 868 00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:10,099 proud tradition in Wales stretching back 869 00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:12,619 to the Rebecca riots and beyond. 870 00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:14,779 And actually, Chelsea Manning is 871 00:32:14,780 --> 00:32:16,249 could be seen as part of that radical 872 00:32:16,250 --> 00:32:17,899 tradition teenager. 873 00:32:17,900 --> 00:32:20,329 If you had a teenager in Britain and 874 00:32:20,330 --> 00:32:22,579 you know, it's been a play recently, 875 00:32:22,580 --> 00:32:24,859 I think the only major play so far, Tim 876 00:32:24,860 --> 00:32:26,959 Price, is the radicalization of Bradley 877 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,969 Manning. It was first put on by the 878 00:32:28,970 --> 00:32:29,899 Welsh. 879 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:30,900 Yeah. 880 00:32:31,910 --> 00:32:34,429 In terms of, you know, wider 881 00:32:34,430 --> 00:32:36,679 policing issues, I 882 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,259 mean, actual fact, what the velocipedes 883 00:32:39,260 --> 00:32:40,579 the first thing the gentleman's magazine 884 00:32:40,580 --> 00:32:42,649 said is great. We can pursue thieves 885 00:32:42,650 --> 00:32:44,969 out of the capital, into the countryside 886 00:32:44,970 --> 00:32:45,889 now. 887 00:32:45,890 --> 00:32:47,449 So they were very, very adaptable in the 888 00:32:47,450 --> 00:32:49,159 way they saw potential uses of this 889 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:50,160 technology. 890 00:32:50,870 --> 00:32:52,069 I think I lost the question slightly of 891 00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:53,419 everything. 892 00:32:53,420 --> 00:32:54,920 OK, here we go. 893 00:32:57,380 --> 00:32:59,929 OK, I want to say thanks for your talk 894 00:32:59,930 --> 00:33:01,369 first. It was really, really great. 895 00:33:01,370 --> 00:33:03,739 And also, I guess I've got 896 00:33:03,740 --> 00:33:05,839 a point and then a question if that's 897 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,909 all right. And that the point, I 898 00:33:07,910 --> 00:33:10,009 guess, is just more of an elaboration 899 00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:12,169 on crowd control policing 900 00:33:12,170 --> 00:33:13,699 in the UK today. 901 00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:15,769 I think I'm not the only person who's 902 00:33:15,770 --> 00:33:17,929 at that protest, as you 903 00:33:17,930 --> 00:33:18,930 can see it. 904 00:33:20,420 --> 00:33:22,579 But so 905 00:33:22,580 --> 00:33:24,349 it's I find it really, really interesting 906 00:33:24,350 --> 00:33:26,909 that you brought up the Lewis defenses 907 00:33:26,910 --> 00:33:28,969 and the idea of just being at 908 00:33:28,970 --> 00:33:31,129 a protest or in in a protest 909 00:33:31,130 --> 00:33:33,199 crowd being not being 910 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,849 not enough for conviction, because now 911 00:33:34,850 --> 00:33:36,949 that's basically the definition of 912 00:33:36,950 --> 00:33:38,719 the charge of violent disorder, which is 913 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,749 a catchall charge to 914 00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:44,389 use to prosecute protesters 915 00:33:44,390 --> 00:33:46,669 and people on the streets 916 00:33:46,670 --> 00:33:48,499 in the UK right now. 917 00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:51,469 But your your distinction between 918 00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:53,329 being in a crowd and being in 919 00:33:53,330 --> 00:33:55,459 individuated is part of that crowd is 920 00:33:55,460 --> 00:33:56,959 is really important, I think, for 921 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,679 understanding how. 922 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,629 Crowd control policing works right now 923 00:34:00,630 --> 00:34:02,699 because you can be prosecuted just for 924 00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:04,529 being part of that crowd, but at the same 925 00:34:04,530 --> 00:34:06,989 time people are being prosecuted because 926 00:34:06,990 --> 00:34:09,119 they've appeared on unspotted 927 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,029 sites, on police cameras and from the 928 00:34:12,030 --> 00:34:14,099 from the student riots in 2010, 929 00:34:15,210 --> 00:34:17,579 you saw people being picked 930 00:34:17,580 --> 00:34:19,049 out of the crowd, you know, people's 931 00:34:19,050 --> 00:34:21,658 faces being put up in the newspapers 932 00:34:21,659 --> 00:34:22,678 released by the police. 933 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,779 And they had 12 pictures, the shaming 934 00:34:24,780 --> 00:34:26,849 people, mostly young people 935 00:34:26,850 --> 00:34:29,988 of color and 936 00:34:29,989 --> 00:34:31,619 it and the idea that you can be 937 00:34:31,620 --> 00:34:33,509 individuated and picked out, but at the 938 00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:35,789 same time prosecuted 939 00:34:35,790 --> 00:34:37,529 for being part of a larger movement as a 940 00:34:37,530 --> 00:34:39,269 tactic of intimidation. 941 00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:41,279 And I guess that was my point. 942 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,919 My question was, what is 943 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,049 if you had any more information about 944 00:34:46,050 --> 00:34:48,329 the what was the reaction 945 00:34:48,330 --> 00:34:50,669 to radical art in the romantic period 946 00:34:50,670 --> 00:34:52,319 in terms of a political backlash? 947 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,479 Like what was what was the 948 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,419 state's reaction to Shelley and Keats 949 00:34:56,420 --> 00:34:57,449 writing all this stuff? 950 00:34:57,450 --> 00:34:58,989 Because I don't know. 951 00:34:58,990 --> 00:35:00,629 Yeah, yeah. 952 00:35:00,630 --> 00:35:02,699 I mean, you know, says technical 953 00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:04,179 processes of individuation. 954 00:35:04,180 --> 00:35:05,789 And that's what a lot of this technology 955 00:35:05,790 --> 00:35:07,619 is supposed to do. And we do it all the 956 00:35:07,620 --> 00:35:09,239 time, you know, just by slowing down as 957 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:10,199 we approach a group of people. 958 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,550 So it's an excellent point. 959 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,779 Well, the first point, I think, for 960 00:35:15,780 --> 00:35:17,939 today's before you say your part 961 00:35:17,940 --> 00:35:19,320 about everyone takes is 962 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,889 there seems to be a difference between 963 00:35:22,890 --> 00:35:24,949 the theory, as we've seen in 964 00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:27,119 the in the manuals, the 965 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,309 police manuals and 966 00:35:29,310 --> 00:35:32,069 the actual what they do on the streets. 967 00:35:32,070 --> 00:35:33,070 There is this 968 00:35:34,260 --> 00:35:36,509 lecturer in Leeds who has very 969 00:35:36,510 --> 00:35:38,759 successfully worked with the police 970 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,849 in football crowd situations 971 00:35:41,850 --> 00:35:43,799 where he taught the police. 972 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,809 And that's where this manual comes from, 973 00:35:47,250 --> 00:35:49,379 how to not see a crowd as 974 00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:51,629 a mob, as an entity, but 975 00:35:51,630 --> 00:35:53,070 see the individuals. 976 00:35:54,990 --> 00:35:56,739 And it's worked very successfully in 977 00:35:56,740 --> 00:35:58,739 distillation techniques and all the rest 978 00:35:58,740 --> 00:36:01,259 of it. But it seems like for political 979 00:36:01,260 --> 00:36:03,449 protests, nothing of 980 00:36:03,450 --> 00:36:05,579 this is being taken into account. 981 00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:08,939 So the theory and the reality of, 982 00:36:08,940 --> 00:36:10,799 you know, it's very disparate there. 983 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:11,789 Yeah, absolutely. 984 00:36:11,790 --> 00:36:13,259 I mean, as Clifford Saltum, he's doing 985 00:36:13,260 --> 00:36:15,389 that research and it's valuable. 986 00:36:15,390 --> 00:36:16,589 I think it's a really important 987 00:36:16,590 --> 00:36:17,909 distinction. 988 00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:19,799 Stadium crowd and social panic of that 989 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,929 kind protest is seen as very different 990 00:36:21,930 --> 00:36:24,599 things. As for the romantic response 991 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,399 to radical art. 992 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,829 Well, very little in many cases 993 00:36:28,830 --> 00:36:31,469 because the politics was 994 00:36:31,470 --> 00:36:33,629 sublimated or sort of displaced on 995 00:36:33,630 --> 00:36:34,919 to nature poetry often. 996 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,169 So, you know, what looked like nature 997 00:36:37,170 --> 00:36:38,969 poem Pastorale and we talked a bit about 998 00:36:38,970 --> 00:36:41,099 this last year is often sort 999 00:36:41,100 --> 00:36:43,679 of stuck in a graphic way, radical 1000 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,649 literature that is disguising itself. 1001 00:36:46,650 --> 00:36:48,749 And that's why it remains such a rich 1002 00:36:48,750 --> 00:36:50,279 resource, because, you know, we can pick 1003 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,159 over these things now and we see those 1004 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,349 radical agenda discourses 1005 00:36:55,350 --> 00:36:56,849 that at the time were purposefully 1006 00:36:56,850 --> 00:36:59,309 disguised. So the romantics, in a sense, 1007 00:36:59,310 --> 00:37:00,749 we can talk about unfinished 1008 00:37:00,750 --> 00:37:02,429 conversations and continuities. 1009 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,969 Yeah, OK, we have one last question 1010 00:37:05,970 --> 00:37:08,259 from the Internet, our signal angel. 1011 00:37:08,260 --> 00:37:10,889 Yeah. So we spoke a lot about history 1012 00:37:10,890 --> 00:37:12,899 and the present, but there's also the 1013 00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:13,349 future. 1014 00:37:13,350 --> 00:37:15,809 And the question is, do you expect 1015 00:37:15,810 --> 00:37:17,879 any Precrime laws in the near 1016 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,169 future? 1017 00:37:19,170 --> 00:37:21,389 We already saw those 1018 00:37:21,390 --> 00:37:23,729 pictures where people like could 1019 00:37:23,730 --> 00:37:25,949 be indexed like 1020 00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:29,939 surveilled in a way, but what can 1021 00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:30,940 they do with it? 1022 00:37:31,830 --> 00:37:33,299 Sort of minority report, predictive 1023 00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:34,659 policing a la carte. 1024 00:37:34,660 --> 00:37:36,629 Yeah. Yeah, well, they're doing that 1025 00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:37,630 already. 1026 00:37:38,100 --> 00:37:39,689 Predictive policing. 1027 00:37:39,690 --> 00:37:40,919 Yeah, yeah. They're very successful. 1028 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,719 I mean, we disingenuous to suggest that 1029 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:44,759 we had all the answers and certainly 1030 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,159 romantic a you know, the literature, 1031 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,379 the art is a rich resource, but I'm not 1032 00:37:49,380 --> 00:37:51,389 quite sure how far into the future we can 1033 00:37:51,390 --> 00:37:53,399 project. And we've seen the, you know, 1034 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,389 the dangers of doing that. 1035 00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:56,549 Those estimates are trajectories. 1036 00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:57,749 I don't know. I mean, my my own sense. 1037 00:37:57,750 --> 00:38:00,149 I think our sense is that autonomous 1038 00:38:00,150 --> 00:38:02,459 policing and soft policing is 1039 00:38:02,460 --> 00:38:04,379 is raising all sorts of ethical issues. 1040 00:38:04,380 --> 00:38:06,149 And quite where it's going to go is 1041 00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:08,369 anybody's guess. But I, I, I would 1042 00:38:08,370 --> 00:38:10,079 guess that he's going in that direction, 1043 00:38:11,110 --> 00:38:13,239 you know, I don't 1044 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:14,240 know. 1045 00:38:15,450 --> 00:38:17,309 OK, I'm sorry we are a little bit over 1046 00:38:17,310 --> 00:38:19,469 time, but maybe you will be here for 1047 00:38:19,470 --> 00:38:21,179 two or three minutes more if people have 1048 00:38:21,180 --> 00:38:22,889 more questions from rule. 1049 00:38:22,890 --> 00:38:24,629 Well, Richard, and thank you very much 1050 00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:25,710 for your talk. Thank you.